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With the new election results, maybe incandescent will come back. :)
moonpie the ballasts would be responsible for the flicker that is an issue. My pic of ccfl should've been obvious about the color spectrum also being an issue. Yes your not wrong about that but minimizing the exposure as much as you can is 100% worth it.. changing lighting inside my house is the biggest thing since it's in my living environment. Led light is not beneficial one bit to the human body. Your basically giving your body a daytime signal 24/7 as they emit blue light.
Uprtek I don't use with my eyes. I don't really watch TV either, others do in the house. Eink I don't use the led front light, I use an incandescent light or natural light. Yes my phone is amoled which is why I preordered an eink phone. I think you also forgot about rlcd that can be lit with natural/incandescent light too. Blue light at night is what's very bad.
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moonpie I am 25 and as a kid in school under florescents I wouldn't know what normal feels like. I had issues in school retaining info I read and I notice that I get that + other symptoms even today under bad lighting. Certain stores I can't go into without symptoms unless I wear irlens colored lenses. Many people are affected by CFL/florescent lights. My neuro-ophthalmologist has stated that too. The balast issue is definitely an issue either the magnetic ballast were the better ones or were worse I forgot. Flickersense.org mentions the "better" one.
I actually don't use that uprtek with my own eyes as it makes me dizzy/spacey. When I use it I am viewing the screen from my cameras view finder unfortunately. I already mentioned that earlier. It's fine doing it like that, I use it since the sensor is more accurate than an opple. Why would I add an incandescent bulb for a LCD that has a backlight assembly attached to it? Not to mention the heat that the housing shell isn't designed for.
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moonpie You have an "innate" preference to the exact color temp of incandescent. Incandescent = fire = monkey brain's like. There's nothing more to it than that.
High CRI is also a factor. I tried some 2700k and 3000k non-dimmable LEDs that didn't flicker at all on camera (didn't notice them flickering either), they were decent and way better than the 100% flicker depth LEDs I used to have.
But everything was super yellow and orange looking including white sheets of paper — even though they claimed to have same temp as incandescent, the CRI was way worse.
With waveform, the temperature is generally orange which is nice, but whites still look white and saturated colors don't have an obvious yellow tint (unlike some other brands I was trying). They were the first brand I found that achieved this for me, and I had a pretty noticeable boost in energy/productivity, so I just decided to stick with it.
IK that there's other brands of high CRI bulbs that are cheaper. I've already found something that works for me so I'm not really interested in trying them. Maybe when I need to replace the bulbs I'll look into it to see if there are alternatives. But it's not important for me at the moment.
I do agree that "low" flicker depth is OK — the best computer screen I've found so far has some mild PWM and I don't notice it. (On the other hand, there are some PWM-free screens that are unusable for me.) Incandescent is also fine of course. Flicker isn't my main issue, unless it's high flicker depth.
Also, I actually prefer the 3000k waveforms to the 2700k, so it's not just because "I have a preference to the incandescent temperature". (On the other hand, I prefer incandescent 2700k to halogen 3000k… but with Waveform LEDs it's the other way around. Not sure why)
I can afford the bulbs and it's working great for me so I'll just stick with it for now
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moonpie I had issues prior but after 2020 is when they became severe enough to where I can't use most screens. Spare me a laugh. Irlens is very real and it works. There's over what 40years of research on it formerly known as meeres syndrome. It's addressing visual stress. I guess the SPECT scans are just a placebo right ? 
Opthalmologists also use a cerium colorimeter for lenses which are similar. You certainly seem to know everything about nothing.
I'm well aware what a AMOLED display is which is why I stated earlier about how I pre-ordered a eink phone. My amoled is far more comfortable than the uprtek screen but the amoled still is not perfect and causes symptoms. It's just more manageable. I'm surprised you didn't see that about my phone in my post history when you were creepin through it all as I've talked about it before in the past. I hope the arguing you seem to be a fan of helps you sleep at night because I'm sure the LEDs don't.
it is an issue with the light produced. led diodes are a planar light source (look at the planar radiation pattern) that give off relatively more collimated rays which is unnatural compared to the sun and filament/hid sources that has more divergent rays. it's like listening to music through a cone shaped speaker driver vs. the actual waveform produced by an instrument. diverging vs converging echos etc.
the brain perceive objects illuminated by led's to be distant in space compared to HIDs and filament sources. same as how the brightly lit building a mile away is perceived to be distant despite it being brighter then the room you are in due to ray angle eccentricity. so light from leds don't stimulate accommodation at the eye as much (the more divergent the more stimulation, hence minus concave lenses) which leads to accommodative lead related eye strain. in other words, led light is actually too 'comfortable' for folks that have issues with accommodative insufficiency. the general population tends to have an issue with accommodative lag/excess hence they have no issues. there's a reason why optometry testing machines you rest your head on and look into still use filament sources.
we use computer monitors for eye testing in the optometric clinic and we noticed weird changes in our results when we changed from old dell CCFLs to newer led backlit monitors. eye movement was decreased and accommodative amplitude changed and the results were repeated when we A/Bed it.
flicker and spectrum is a red herring. filament bulb flicker too and your own blinking is low hertz flicker. daylight has tons of short wavelength content.
I think very soon the industry will pick up on this because folks in optometry and neuroscience already know about this. there is an indoor olympic track and field training center in china that downgraded their expensive LED setup to sulphur plasma. something about the brain the 'sensing the ground as being more present' which is pretty wacky but not really wacky since we already have tons of literature about how LRV of flooring affects gait.
personally I switched out my expensive optisolis leds in my home for cheapo CFL spirals and 12000k philip 'snow white' tubes and if anything the ambiance is superior. maybe that's why the corner store doesn't feel as chill since they swapped the overhead tubes for leds
miripump Wow thanks for writing this. This is very useful information! I knew there was more to LEDs then the basic stuff we may speak about. Do you use a CCFL monitor for personal use? I don't really watch tv but the ccfl tv in my house does feel more comfortable than any led lit one ive tried. One symptom I get on my AMOLED phone is bad blurry vision, wondering if the led light is causing accommodation spasms. it clears up overtime with no screen use. Currently typing this on my Eink monitor with incandescent light.
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Do you have a source link to the olympic training center switch out? I wonder what the display industry will do once they realize this? In the audio world, I'm aware they try to solve the unnatural cone shaped speaker driver issue with wave field synthesis.
I don't have a link, it's not publicly mentioned. I am chinese and hear of it thru an athletics chat group. but many esoteric stuff happens in sporting academies all over the world not just here so I'm not surprised. But since learning of that I kind of noticed that sports grounds still lit by halides tend to be more energetic to play on but I am likely pushing it
this is partly why I'm very bearish about VR in general and its ability to generate immersion. they will probably figure this out in the VR space first before it trickles down to consumer electronics. I think we might see some kind of "downgrade" of sorts being charged as a premium feature. for example, the recent myopia control lenses actually introduces distortion, whereas expensive lenses were always marketed as being thin and distortion free as if it was some kind of health benefit. I don't really follow too much but the recent convex lenslet MLA OLEDS that collimate light for the purpose of changing nits might really start messing with peoples eyes. It's like traffic lights with fly eye lenses that are a very common visual complaint
I am not a big audio guy but the first time I heard dome mid ranges the sound was very present and extremely euphoric cause all I was used to were tiny full range cone computer speakers. I've heard about how slap echo and digital beepers and alarms that use tiny cone speakers to simulate high frequency noises tend to bother TBI patients the most due to the odd unnatural spatial effect. thanks for the link
At home I have CCFL laptop and monitors. for me I can tell a big difference between CCFL and LED. at first CCFL made my eyes tired but in a pleasant way like being in bright daylight but never once did it cause strain. which makes sense since something that has more accommodative stimulus will make your eyes work more in a good way. I can use my normal monitors at work ok but I guess I kind of noceboed and spoilt myself already
I had an issue with my first amoled samsung phone. I noticed I couldn't use it while driving, because my eyes couldn't switch focus from near to far as quickly, which is basically accommodative spasm induced blur. I checked my eyes and nothing changed so it was the phone.
I think filament is the best source of light because it has the smallest/tightest radiation pattern but the spectrum really is way too warm and can be bad as well. orange yellow light has a subtractive effect to blue light which can lead to premature cognitive decline. it's why I don't recommend blue blockers although everyone wants it by default on their glasses like it's some kind of luxury. maybe you can try some type of blue filter over the monitor or some glasses? B39 optical glass is good but it will be dim. blue filtered incandescent and halogen is a very pleasing and invigorating blue green color…
Original ballasts for fluorescents were magnetic and flickered at 60 Hz. Many people could hear them too.
The electronic ballasts were so much better. 40 kHz and the buzz was gone.
My basement is lit by T-12 fluorescents. I switched the ballasts in 3 of the fixtures to electronic, but I left the rest magnetic because I hardly ever turn them on. I do see the difference when they are on.
T-8 tubes on electronic ballast are great.
Thanks for your reply. The full range cone computer speakers are most likely radiating sound very differently for different frequencies. See sound radiation at this link: https://www.genelec.com/correct-monitors
I did try and made a very rough incandescent backlite portable monitor with all the LEDs components remove but still had negative effects despite wanting the display to work so probably not nocebo effect. The light shining through the panel is still polarized I think?
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I also agree that Irlen really works: I totally was suspicious about whether it was "real" at first, but even literally having that doubt in mind before meeting with the specialist, I was still blown away by the results lol
There is a very visible and immediate difference in the amount of depth perception I have in the real world, and the sense of "scale/proportion" to things. I can see it changing immediately when taking them on and off. Although there is no traditional prescription (unless you add one), I can see the position of objects slightly move when putting them on, so the colors definitely change my perception of space in some kind of way.
Note that I'm referring to custom Irlen tint, this was part of evaulating 50+ different combinations and layers of the lenses in a dark room.
I've heard that some Irlen distributors don't go through the whole process to personalize it (which wouldn't create as good of a result). Fortunately, the specialist I worked with was very familiar with the process.
In fact, the first time I ever tried Irlen the amount of increase in depth perception was so immediate/surprising that it made me realize "I swear the last time I was able to see the world like this was over 10 years ago"
And this was with the initial doubt that "it's probably not going to do anything", LOL.
It is certainly real since it very noticeably changed the way I see, even when I initially didn't believe it would. No other types of glasses have done this for me.
(BTW, Neurolens actually didn't work at all for me! However, Irlen has been working great for me for more than a year now, I can tell the difference every time I put them on.)
My ability to coordinate movement, feel less tired under cheap LED bulbs, deal with large crowds, able to judge distance/proportion/scale is all better while using Irlen glasses, the change happens immediately and was very obvious to me.
However, they don't improve my LCD screen sensitivity and are not really useful for that purpose -- I actually take them off while using screens. (except for some OLED phones for an unknown reason, which it actually does make a bit less "noisy" feeling to my eyes and slightly more tolerable)
Larkenn
Here they say the federal ban doesn't apply to the 50 states: