Eyestrain From Screen Refresh Flickering On Moto G54

George357

simplex I'm still investigating this unexpected setback. I'll write up a detailed report when I've done a bit more research.

George357

simplex Whatever my problem was it is resolved. I am confident it was not down to any flickering, I re-examined the phone with my flicker detector and found nothing. I stand by my original conclusion that the Nord CE 3 Lite 5G is flicker-free, at least the one I own is. I am not sure what was causing the eyestrain I was getting, maybe some issue with the text rendering or the display calibration. Anyway, I reinstalled everything (same OS) and set everything up again from scratch and now it is fine, no problems.

After the problems I had with the Moto phones and the Fairphone 4 and the problems others are reporting with other modern LCD phones like the Moto G75 which seem to cause eye problems even when they don't have PWM plus the ongoing trend towards OLED displays in phones, I begin to wonder if this Nord CE 3 Lite 5G may be the last fully usable phone for me. Since I also need an unlockable bootloader, which is now offered by relatively few manufacturers, and either close to stock Android default OS or custom ROM, my universe of usable phones may soon shrink to nothing. With that in mind I decided to buy another Nord CE 3 Lite 5G so I have got a spare in case anything happens to my daily driver. With luck these two phones might last me ten years if no newer usable phones emerge.

I did flicker-test my second CE 3 Lite 5G BTW and that one too is flicker-free.

simplex

George357 I stand by my original conclusion that the Nord CE 3 Lite 5G is flicker-free, at least the one I own is

Recently my twitch app in android TV become laggy and I updated it from 7.0 to 12/13 version, and got eye-strain. I checked ver by ver and found 9.0 is last I can use, but it also laggy.

Old one is 150mb, new is 60 mb. Using apktool I found old use exoplayer2, when new idk. IDK what does they change, coz "dither" keys looks more activated in 7.0 code version than in 12. And I think they switch internal player which use dithering

p.s. making a backup - a very good solution in our case

Using old/used phones is not good idea:

1. The battery is worn out - you can replace it with a non-original one

2. The memory is worn out - no solution

3. The screen is worn out, the blue peak becomes higher than at the beginning, the screen becomes "cold" in shade - no solution, because it is impossible to find a new screen. And it is unknown from what LEDs / spectral the screen replicas are made. And it is unknown in which replica there will be FRC/dithering and in which - not

macsforme

WhisperingWind Does anyone have the kext from Amulet that disables dithering for AMD graphics cards on Mac?

It was linked on this forum a few times, but the links I found appear to be expired. The filename was AHKinject_SCN078.dmg. This post was a summary of all the info I could find about disabling dithering on Intel macOS, and it had a few links that might point you in the right direction. If you can figure out my email address, you can message me privately for more info.

Note that I could not get ahkinject.kext to work for me consistently, as it would only work for about 30 seconds before reverting to dithering (established via capture card). Someone also apparently had to patch the kernel extension for newer macOS versions, but I'm not sure whether the patched version is publicly available.

simplex Old capacitors can pass voltage pulsation.

Also, if monitor is old, blue peak of LED is extremly big (the main issue of this phenomen, is LED coating got cracks due to temperatures, and blue spectrum starts to emit directly in your eye/retina). I stoped using my "safe" old laptop without dithering but having increased blue peak, and eyes become better in terms of sensitivity. I also replaced all LED room lamps (all PWM free, sunlike or big yellow 2800k peak types) into halogens / incandescent

simplex Using old/used phones is not good idea:
...

The screen is worn out, the blue peak becomes higher than at the beginning, the screen becomes "cold" in shade - no solution, because it is impossible to find a new screen. And it is unknown from what LEDs / spectral the screen replicas are made. And it is unknown in which replica there will be FRC/dithering and in which - not

I believe you established this via empirical spectrometer readings, so I tentatively agree that this happens but I have a few thoughts/discussion points:

Is there any more data available on how widespread this kind of LED backlight degradation is? Were these specifically computer monitors that were tested, or smartphone screens as well?
I presume you would draw a distinction between old (as in age) versus high usage hours? So someone who can find an older panel in new condition or with low hours could still reap the benefits.
What about blue light filtering glasses to mitigate the effect of higher blue light emission on older panels?
I have found that some heavily-worn screens do hurt my eyes; however, my impression was not that they turned blue, but rather yellow/brown. I attributed this discoloration to degradation of the film layers intended to transmit/diffuse the light, rather than degradation of the LEDs themselves, but I am now reconsidering this. I do find older displays to be bluer in general versus modern screens, but I attributed that to modern screens getting redder (especially wide-gamut and KSF phosphor panels), rather than the other way around.
For those who can tolerate CCFL backlights, I wonder if refurbishing CCFL screens is a viable option, since replacement CCFL tubes still seem readily available. As far as refurbishing LED-backlit screens, I've seen at least one video of a repair shop replacing individual LEDs for a screen backlight, but the technology is generally more miniature so I would be skeptical of whether this is generally practical for LED-backlit screens.

George357

simplex An old phone is better than no phone! And unless there is a radical breakthrough in DC dimming tech for OLED, that is the situation I may find myself in a few years from now. Fewer and fewer phones have LCD displays, only some of those are PWM-free and, as we have discussed, even those cannot be relied upon to be usable for us.

Besides, old phones are not necessarily worn out, both my Redmi Note 8s are in great shape, good battery life still, displays look fine. And they are both nearly five years old. I do try to take care of my phones, slow charging only, limit charge to 90%, recharge when battery drops to 20%. I could have carried on using them for years, I think. I only changed to get an upgrade - phones do become outdated because technology improves over time and software becomes more resource-intensive with every update so old phones start to seem slow even if the hardware is working as well as ever. The CE 3 Lite 5G isn't the fastest performing phone but is a useful upgrade over what I had before so good enough for me. And should last me a good few years.

K-Moss

Reinhard62 How did you disable all updates including updates of the main Google apps?

K-Moss

George357 "The conclusion I have come to is that truly flicker-free phones are even rarer than I thought."

No. The Moto G 2025 is easily available and does not flicker at all. Moto G55 and Moto G75 are fine as well. If they bother you, you can try this: https://ledstrain.org/d/3423-success-in-disabling-temporal-dither-how-to/

The Moto G 2025 has a more comfortable display than the other two because it is more basic, with a lower resolution. But for some reason even on these communities where people obsess about eye strain they turn up their noses at real-world solutions like the G 2025.

Elsewhere, George wrote as well:

the ambient light sensor is extremely slow or of extremely low quality. Whereas the Asus would change the light level near instantly, it takes the Motorola about 5 seconds to start lowering/increasing the level of light making it very uncomfortable to the eyes.

The ambient light sensor on the G 2025 is instant.

Regarding reflectivity of the G 2025, something complained about for the G54, it's not bad at all.

You can put the G 2025 display under a microscope and obsess about it all you want, but it's a stable image without any PWM, without any refresh rate dip, and without dithering. It's also relatively low resolution for increased eye comfort. It's also low cost and easily available.

Always choose 720p LCD for a smartphone if max eye comfort is a priority. I have never yet encountered a sensitive user saying the Moto G 2025 is harsh on their eyes and brain. This despite the G 2025 being one of the fastest-selling units on Amazon. Currently Amazon.com says over 2000 G 2025's sold in the past month, and another 1000+ for a renewed version of the same model. Where are the eye and brain complaints for this unit? They don't exist.

I have at times encountered some complaining about the G55 and G75, both much higher PPI devices.

"Yes, the Motorola Moto G (2025) features a 720p (HD+) display, specifically with a resolution of 1604 x 720 pixels. While it has a large 6.7-inch screen with a high 120 Hz refresh rate, the 720p resolution is considered a significant drawback, making the display less sharp compared to 1080p displays found on some competing phones at a similar price point."

This is what you want. Don't be swayed by the reviews saying 720p phone displays are inferior. They are industry mouthpieces and are clueless about eye comfort for sensitive users.

In fact, one of the common sources of strain for phone screens could be the challenges of properly driving ultra high PPI displays. The 720p display on the G 2025 is easily driven, which means there may be increased image stability for that fact alone. Also means the low specs perform far better than you probably think. Higher resolutions take much more processing power, memory, and battery power. Speaking of which, dramatically improved battery life is a major benefit.

The Moto G 2025 offers significantly better battery life than the Moto G Power 2025, lasting 18.5 hours on a test compared to the Power's 12.25 hours. This is due to the Moto G's 720p resolution and smaller display, which consume less power than the Moto G Power's 1080p display.

See my threads:

https://ledstrain.org/d/3713-2025-eye-comfort-winner
https://ledstrain.org/d/3623-motorola-budget-phones-are-superb

Also, I've read sensitive users saying things they felt like they were seeing behind the pixels or weird things like that. When looking at a phone, don't obsess about seeing it as a screen, just keep it a good distance from your face and view the text and pictures being displayed without being so critical and analytical. If looking too intensely at any display you are bound to drive yourself mad with strain of one kind or another.

QuitePainful

K-Moss But for some reason even on these communities where people obsess about eye strain they turn up their noses at real-world solutions like the G 2025.

People don't "obsess" over eye strain, they are trying to find ways to manage an apparent medical issue that severely impacts their quality of life and ability to function in modern society. The solution you've provided isn't a panacea for digital eye strain, it doesn't work for everyone. There are other sources of eye strain besides PWM, dithering and flickering in general.

K-Moss Currently Amazon.com says over 2000 G 2025's sold in the past month, and another 1000+ for a renewed version of the same model. Where are the eye and brain complaints for this unit? They don't exist.

There are complaints about the Moto G models causing issues on the PWM sensitive subreddit, including the base Moto G model. I personally have found some of them intolerable as well. If you meant that there are no complaints about eye strain among the customer reviews on Amazon, a cursory glance at the first listing for Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra shows none of those either. Doesn't mean it's not going to cause issues for some people.

K-Moss Also, I've read sensitive users saying things they felt like they were seeing behind the pixels or weird things like that. When looking at a phone, don't obsess about seeing it as a screen, just keep it a good distance from your face and view the text and pictures being displayed without being so critical and analytical. If looking too intensely at any display you are bound to drive yourself mad with strain of one kind or another.

Again, people aren't "obsessing", they're trying to understand and solve a problem that already exists. I'd imagine seeing a holographic effect of sorts or similar on a screen might make focusing on it difficult, making this unusual visual effect a plausible lead for further investigation of any experienced eye strain. I doubt many people first meticulously analyze a display and only then experience symptoms.

K-Moss

QuitePainful The Moto G 2025 is the most basic, simple, comfortable to use screen you're going to find on a smartphone with snappy performance with the exception, possibly, of a new NXTPAPER product. A user telling me the G 2025 causes them problems almost certainly has problems with everything else as well.

QuitePainful

K-Moss The Moto G 2025 is the most basic, simple, comfortable to use screen you're going to find on a smartphone

You keep making these claims without much substance to back them up.

K-Moss A user telling me the G 2025 causes them problems almost certainly has problems with everything else as well.

How so? Also, isn't the reason people linger on these eye strain related forums that they have trouble using most modern screens? Does that invalidate the negative experiences some people have of these Moto G phones?

K-Moss

QuitePainful G 2025 has zero flicker, zero dithering, and a low 720p res that is easily driven. It gives you the most stable picture you're going to find on a smartphone. I think the higher res smartphones all have issues with current fluctuation from trying to drive those ultra high PPI screens using minimal battery power.

There are indeed some in communities like this who enjoy at some level being crippled and will make up excuses about why the Moto G 2025 is inadequate. So they will instead buy the latest OLED iPhone and complain as usual. "Woe is me."

Moto G 2025 is like looking at paper. Your eyes quickly get used to it and it's a very clear and stable picture.

QuitePainful

K-Moss

K-Moss G 2025 has zero flicker, zero dithering, and a low 720p res that is easily driven. It gives you the most stable picture you're going to find on a smartphone.

We've been over how these aren't the only possible causes of eye strain but for some reason you won't listen.

K-Moss There are indeed some in communities like this who enjoy at some level being crippled and will make up excuses about why the Moto G 2025 is inadequate. So they will instead buy the latest OLED iPhone and complain as usual. "Woe is me."

The Moto G models don't actually work for everyone despite your unfounded belief to the contrary. People have tried these devices and found them to cause eye strain. We've been over this as well in other threads.

K-Moss

QuitePainful "The Moto G models don't actually work for everyone despite your unfounded belief to the contrary. People have tried these devices and found them to cause eye strain."

Only those who can't use anything.

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