Check out this Daylight Computer Android tablet

Sunspark

Monochrome LCD with amber LEDs for backlight. Says no PWM as well. Intriguing!

Sunspark

A review of it. I am still interested.

https://jon.bo/posts/daylight-computer-1/

Also saw this image from November showing the spectogram.

jordan

Sunspark I had one and ended up selling it. Something felt off with it even with the backlight off. When I did try it with the amber backlight on after some days my vision felt gray/hazy and colors were washed out. Must be that im sensitive to the orange phosphor? My vision did improve after a week or so of not using it. The 120hz refresh rate on it was nice, I wish it wouldve worked for me. Other little gripe which isnt a big deal is that I wish they would use a nicer shell/body since it doesnt really feel premium like I would expect it to be at the $729 price.

Sunspark

Thank you for your review! That's too bad that it didn't work out for you. 🙁

I wonder what it was.. no backlight at all, and still an issue..

jordan

Sunspark no problem! Yeah I was really hoping it would've worked. I am wondering if it's polarization that I'm bothered by ? 🤔 I seem to be sensitive to all LCDs but not eink. someone else I know has a daylight and he said it feels fine but he said he prefers how the hannsnote 2 rlcd is polarized. I will say that the daylight is the best feeling lcd I have tried so far. everything else has been bad.

OldMan

jordan Have you tried the Hisense Q5 RLCD tablet? For me that is the best LCD display I have used. I still need to be wary of ensuring I'm not staring into glare but other than that it is great. If only someone would focus on producing B&W RLCD monitors and tablets (and phones!).

Sunspark

You could try this experiment.. get a sheet of tracing paper and tape it flush to an LCD that you already have. That'll depolarize it in a hurry. See how it feels. Probably better done in the evening since it'll be dimmer.

jen

I tried the Daylight Computer and it injured me too (in natural light with the backlight off). It turns out that it has significant pixel flicker - 24 Hz, 30 Hz, or 60 Hz, depending on the app/grayscale. I collected flicker meter data and videos, posted them at https://www.flickersense.org/testing-leds-and-screens. and also have shared the data with Daylight. They talked with me for a long time on the phone and don't currently have a solution for the pixel flicker, but are interested in investigating what they might be able to do about it. I was impressed that a company listened about the flicker problem and is interested in helping. The flicker frequency seems tied to the software. Forcing a 120 Hz refresh rate in the Android developer settings made the pixel flicker more uniformly 60 Hz and reduced some of my immediate pain when looking at the screen, but I still developed my typical long-lasting concussion-like "LED" symptoms.

simplex

jen

Does I got you research correctly: all nightshift modes in tested devices, increase subpixel flickering ?

p.s. looking at your Dell pixel flickering, I suppose it has temporal FRC. Here is my archieve with 3 samples of dithering: spatial static, spatial dynamic 2x2, temporal. Better to watch bottom left square to find difference, I prefer win10 image browser in fullscreen + hold keyboard right button to change image -> https://transfiles.ru/wpuw4

jen

simplex Yes, that's right. It isn't relevant for the grayscale Daylight Computer, but on every typical LCD screen I tested, Nightshift increased green subpixel flicker some and increased blue subpixel flicker a lot. That seems to be the strategy for making the overall appearance more orange,

simplex

jen

I feel, in nightshift windows mode, or with monitor lowbluelight, the impact of blue reduces! ( eyes dont feel "razors" inside it )

And equalliy, I found I can use only 15..20% of blue light reduce, because I started to feel another discomfort. Your findigs approve it, very good instumental research !

I also read you feel bad almost with all screens - I strongly reduce eye-strain after switching LED interior lights into halogen ( they are 50/60hz sine modulation ) and spectrum very "smooth" ( smooth as natural, as sun )

Also, this post could be userful for you -> https://ledstrain.org/d/3883-did-you-solved-problems-with-tn-monitors/6 as strain reduce factor

K-Moss

jen Jen, I am quite interested in knowing which devices, currently, you find comfortable and usable.