martin Good news: With the current setup I can detect 10 MHz PWM (and even more). It is a little out of shape, but clearly visible. And this was just the PWM of a small pin LED. A monitor is much brighter and should deliver even better results.

  • JTL likes this.
17 days later

valex13 I purchased the Radex Lupin. It works great for older laptops (like 5+ years old) as well as cars (even new cars). It also works great for detecting flicker in LED bulbs (I found that I was getting headaches, etc., from some LED bulbs that I had purchased). For me, LED bulbs below 5% flicker are just fine. Anything above, say, 30% flicker will cause noticeable problems. Anything in between is hard to say. I ended up walking around my house and replacing many of my LED bulbs with ones that flicker less.

KM I am very tempted to purchase the Lifli. It's totally worth the money to me if it works. I just don't want to waste $300+ on something that doesn't do what I want it to do. Would you say it does what's advertised? Specifically, will it detect PWM in newer laptops? I understand that it's not very precise because it only has 18 LEDs to indicate the amount of flicker.

  • KM replied to this.

    GregAtkinson I would not recommend the LiFli for displays. The reason is that it needs a pretty high brightness to operate. When the brightness is too low, the scale would just blink at 2%, indicating a lack of light. It would still output to an oscilloscope, but the output is very noisy, which is a problem since this hides low brightness fluctuations. The device works well for measuring room lighting and lamps, which I believe it is made for. But not for low brightness light sources like displays. On displays I need to show a white screen on a high brightness setting to get enough light.

    For display measurements, you are much better off buying some BPW34 off eBay and build the oscilloscope circuit. It works even without soldering as you can see in the latest picture.

    If you want to see even tiny fluctuations (1%) in low brightness modes, I can recommend the PicoScope 2204a. Its lowest range of +/-50 mV is a true 8 bit hardware mode. Plus it can do oversampling to simulate additional bits of vertical resolution, meaning it can filter out some noise. Up to 10 bits are useful. They told me the option which covers everything most accurate would be their true 12 bit oscilloscope for $800+, which no doubt would be great but seems overkill. Unless even fluctuations of far less than 1% are responsible for our eye strain, which at this point I have a hard time to believe.

    The Hantek 6022BE has some accuracy problems in low voltage modes. Those modes are not real hardware modes but zoomed in from like the +/-100 or +/-200 mV mode. You will still see PWM, but maybe not tiny fluctuations (say below 5% voltage ripple) at low screen brightness. But thanks to the Android software HScope, the 6022BE might be the cheapest option to build a portable solution. We just need to make the photodiode probe circuit more robust so it can survive a trip in a bag easily. Then, with a powerbank and a compatible Android device, everything should be portable.

    • JTL replied to this.

      KM I would not recommend the LiFli for displays. The reason is that it needs a pretty high brightness to operate

      I suspected the same as well.

      13 days later

      KM Could you please share the name of the rezistor?

      • KM replied to this.
        18 days later

        I just assembled a second BPW34 probe, this time without battery, just using a 100K Ohm resistor. And even then it is responsive enough, as seen in the following screenshots. Blue = battery + resistor, red = just the resistor.
        The red line is waving a little, which is due to some neighbored 50 Hz noise. And differences in amplitudes are related to different viewing angles.

        100 Hz

        100,000 Hz

        10,000,000 Hz - Now the LED gets noticably darker, probably because it can't keep up with the PWM speed anymore.

        So it seems we don't even need a battery, just connecting/wiring/soldering a resistor to a BPW34 is enough. And then attaching the probes left and right of the resistor, right next to it.

          KM Thank you, could you please again share a photo how the photodiode and the rezistor is attached together without the battery? Does the orientation of both matter? Does it also matter which clips of the osc go where?
          I have downloaded picoscope, have hantek 6022BE and all the gear, I just need to put it together now.

          • KM replied to this.

            martin Orientation does not matter without the battery. If the signal is negative, below zero, just switch the probes. I will upload a photo in some minutes.

              martin PicoScope is a software only for PicoScope oscilloscopes. You need either:

              Linux: OpenHantek (https://github.com/OpenHantek/openhantek)

              Windows: The official software from Hantek for Windows (http://www.hantek.com/en/productdetail_2_31.html) or one of the alternative softwares for Windows. PCSCOPE was recommended by Wootever: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-6022be-20mhz-usb-dso/msg1099490/#msg1099490. There is also BasicScope, (http://pididu.com/wordpress/basicscope/) which looks a little strange: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-6022be-20mhz-usb-dso/?action=dlattach;attach=281643;image. There is also Open6022BE which I don't find the link for. It is buried somewhere in above eevblog thread. All those Windows versions might not run on Windows 10 as some users reported.

              Android: HScope (http://hscope.martinloren.com/)

              KM Have you tried connecting the OPT101 like shown here?

                Viktor Yes, I tried to do that. But the battery had no impact at all. Maybe my soldering was too bad. So I took my second OPT101 and used it without the attached board, effectively overheating it within seconds.
                However, I think the OPT101 may be too slow due to the official bandwidth specification of 14 kHz.

                Edit: Viktor I realized I soldered the OPT101 to its board the opposite way. Would this make any difference? I had to switch the probe tips to get a positive voltage.

                  My recent LED measurements (see above) which showed no perfect square waves bothered me a little and I began to wonder whether the LED or the photodiode was too slow for the PWM signal. So I wanted to know how much impact the 9V battery really has, and as you can see in this screenshot, it speeds up the rise time a little.

                  Blue=9V battery, Red=no battery; Frequency: 5000 Hz, 100K resistors

                  However, reducing the resistance from 100K down to 10K speeds up the diode almost proportionally by the factor 10:

                  Blue=10K resistor, Red=100K resistor; No batteries

                  The downside is that 10K is not only 10 times faster but also delivers a 10 times smaller voltage, so I believe for now 100K are a good trade-off. If anyone has ideas how to make this faster or can measure his OPT101 rise times, let me know. With the Raspberry Pi How-To you can create your own PWM-controlled LED circuit and measure the speed of your oscilloscope setup: https://ledstrain.org/d/375-howto-create-pwm-led-flicker-with-a-raspberry-pi

                  OPT101 without battery, 5000 Hz PWM:

                  So it seems the OPT101 gives up much earlier.

                  KM There is a small notch on the photodiode to help with the orientation, this should be the correct layout:

                  Edit:
                  Test with a Nokia 6 at <17% brightness:

                  result from notebookcheck.com:

                  Edit2:
                  I tried to create a pwm signal with the arduino status led:

                  Code:
                  void setup()
                  {
                  pinMode(13, OUTPUT);
                  }

                  void loop()
                  {
                  digitalWrite(13, HIGH);
                  delayMicroseconds(100);
                  digitalWrite(13, LOW);
                  delayMicroseconds(100);
                  }

                  The opt101 can also be connected without soldering:

                    It looks like both the working OPT101 + 9V battery solution and the BPW34 + 9V battery + 100K resistor share the same responsiveness, with the OPT101 delivering a higher voltage.
                    Both suffer from their slow rise and fall times.

                    I am thinking about a new approach the whole day now: connecting multiple BPW34 in parallel to maximize the photocurrent, and using a low impedance resistor - 10K or lower - to maximize the voltage. High responsiveness and still decent voltage output.

                    OK somebody else must take over from here. I don't have the electronic knowledge to connect such devices and build circuits and I realized learning it in an autodidactive way takes a lot of time and endurance which I don't have.

                    KM
                    I set it up this way. Worked nice on my CCFL monitor. Here is a picture:
                    But I was surprised that my laptop doesn't show the 1000Hz PWM I expected (Chi Mei N173HGE), it shows constant voltage there (no picture attached). It's possible it has no PWM because there are many versions, but there are certainly devices which have 1000Hz.
                    My question now is: Can I conclude from the steep downfall in the picture that my setup would detect 1000Hz PWM although the PWM of my CCFL monitor is only 180Hz?
                    I would says "yes" because the downfall is only 0,4ms long. What do you think?

                    • KM replied to this.

                      Hanzebenger I think you should even see 10 MHz PWM - as long as it's full on/off PWM. As you can see in my pictures in which I compared battery vs non-battery waves, a few posts above: https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide/52
                      The wave will not look like rectangular PWM anymore, and it will float above zero, but you can see spikes that have the correct frequency.

                      When the flicker is just a small ripple riding on a DC signal though, as seen in "flicker-free" displays, it might not be displayed. But such small flicker may matter: FRC/temporal dithering, unresolved software eye strain - all those have just a very tiny flicker. So I imagine if a backlight has a similar small flicker, it might trigger eye strain, too.
                      You can see such small waves a little easier when you switch your PicoScope oscilloscope to "AC" mode. The Hantek 6022BE doesn't have such a mode.
                      In fact I think there is a higher frequency riding on top of your waves (where there is no thin line but distortion) which you could make visible by adjusting the time axis.

                      I believe the largest part of your rise times is related to the slow CCFL response. You should easily detect 1000 Hz PWM.

                      dev