• Abstract

  • Debating Apple silicon models to try, with a sensitivity to light..

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum. 🙂
I've read through several of the detailed discussions posted on here, which I really appreciate, about the Apple M-series models.

I'm currently using an early 2015 Macbook Pro Retina, 13.3" model. This computer gives me less eye strain than my current iPhone does, the iPhone 16. I'm finding that long reading and browsing sessions on the iPhone (over 20-30 minutes) tend to give me eye pain and strain, headaches and even migraines, whereas I've been able to work on my laptop for hours without significant issue.

I was surprised to research that while the Macbook Pro Retina 13.3" early 2015 model does not contain PWM, it does contain temporal dithering. I had no idea what this was before a few days ago -- it's possible it is causing me some eye strain, to be sure, but not as much as my iPhone 16, which has the PWM and OLED screen.

For that reason, and because I have limited mobility and a limited budget to try other tech options, I'm thinking that my eye strain issues are caused moreso by PWM than by temporal dithering.

I am debating between whether to try the Macbook Pro M2 with Touch Bar model (13", 2022) based on some recommendations on this forum, but the one caveat that I did not properly anticipate is that it still has flickering detectable in the screen, according to Notebookcheck, in the LCD display itself, even if you disable the Touch Bar. Their suggestion is to turn the brightness up beyond 56% on the computer to bypass the (non-PMW?) flickering problem, but that is not an option for me. I am sensitive to light/LEDs, and even wearing glasses, etc. etc. I cannot turn my brightness on my current laptop up to more than maybe 50% indoors without my eyes feeling like they're starting to take a beating and get headaches (and this is with the best glasses ever). For that reason, I can't rely on the "turn your brightness up to bypass __" solution that's been posted on this forum, and I am thinking I reliably need an Apple laptop that just doesn't contain flickering at all, even in low brightness settings, due to my eye sensitivity.

I was also considering the M3 Macbook Air, since it doesn't have PWM, and I know there is a way to disable temporal dithering by using StillColor. But my eyes are also sensitive to motion (sigh), and others have reported that there are flickering issues on the screen that is only solvable through getting an app with an invisible animation to run. I have absolutely no experience with coding, whatsoever, and no one I know so far has any idea how to do this on my Macbook, either (or doesn't want to take the risk in case it doesn't work).

I am feeling stuck about what to do and try for these reasons -- I am fairly confident that any kind of flickering will make my eyes strain and give me headaches -- I cannot even watch movies because I am sensitive to motion. All the new Apple silicon laptops seem to contain flickering of some kind -- whether it's PWM flicker or the Macbook Air insidious kind of flicker that can only be shut off with this app code that I haven't found anyone to help me with, and which also seems risky to try to implement.

I was hoping to find a laptop where I wouldn't have any flickering if I keep brightness levels under 60%, which is most definitely where I'd need to have it at all times.

I was thinking about buying an external monitor to use at my desk, too, but some of these hardware issues (like the Air's flickering) is unsolvable by using an external monitor. But even with the Macbook M2 Touch Bar having a flickering issue, I wouldn't want to rely on using an external monitor in order to get my work done. I still want a laptop that I can carry around and use for at least a couple of hours without having it flicker at me somehow on my usual low brightness settings.

Is there no hope for me getting a newer Apple M model without any flickering? I really, really, really want to stay in the Apple ecosystem if at all possible. I'm not sure whether these computers are even worth trying, or if there's something else I can try…

Can someone who has sensitivity to PWM and who has used both of these laptops please share their experience with what it was like, comparatively speaking? Is anyone else sensitive to all flickering lights, and have you been able to use either of these laptops successfully?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

  • int replied to this.

    int
    Hi, thanks for your reply 🙂 I'm definitely going to try StillColor. I ended up placing an order for the M3 Air to try it out and am waiting to receive it. The problem with flickering reported on the M3 Air is not temporal dithering or PWM related, it is identified as a unique flickering issue from this person on the forum whenever there is not a video running:

    https://ledstrain.org/d/3114-macbook-air-15-m3-ips-display-bugs-brightness-f1-f2-flickering-gradients/22

    And this was the suggested app to 'fix' the flickering by running an invisible animation in the background, but I have no idea how to safely go through any of these commands to try to code and install this app, nor does anyone else I know (nor are they willing due to the risk and not wanting to be held liable if anything goes wrong 🙁):

    https://github.com/abinabdc/flickeringMacFix

      First, it’s worth considering whether upgrading from your 2015 Retina MacBook Pro is truly necessary. These can run Monterey at least, or Ventura or later using OpenCore Legacy Patcher. Monterey is not comfortable for me personally on any hardware (weird flickering), but if your hardware is comfortable for you then this could be worth exploring. With a new battery (a difficult DIY job, but doable), 2015 rMBPs are still plenty capable in my view.

      The M1/M2 TB MBPs have a fairly stable backlight according to reports here. There were apparently issues I never fully understood with sharpening and/or contrast, which varied with the panel lottery. I owned one briefly, and it was decent but the red overtone (KSF phosphor, I believe) ultimately was uncomfortable for me. There was definitely a brightness range (right around 50%) which was more comfortable, while going below or above that was uncomfortable immediately. I may have been able to adapt with further regular use, but I opted to sell it.

      I owned a 14-inch, mini-LED MBP which was where all of my problems started. I believe the consensus here is that these are horrible, although there is some panel lottery factor with this model as well (I have a 16-inch mini-LED MBP for work which I use sporadically, which seems better). The latest model with the QDOT display showed some promise, but may need further evaluation.

      I never owned an Apple Silicon MacBook Air (the new design with the notch on M2 and later), but I’ve seen multiple reports here of discomfort/strain from these devices.

      StillColor has been demonstrated (via capture card) to help with external monitors. I have not seen conclusive proof whether it makes a difference on a built-in MacBook screen (it purports to turn dithering off, but I personally struggle to tell the difference subjectively). Some users here report ongoing strain on Apple silicon regardless of StillColor utilization, while others seem to do fine with a known-good external monitor.

      Personally, I have despaired of using Apple Silicon MacBooks going forward. I would possibly consider a Mac desktop with a known-comfortable external display (and StillColor) in the future, but for now I’ve wasted enough money, time, and energy on this company. I’m currently using the most comfortable Mac setup I could find, which is a non-retina 2012 13-inch MacBook Pro with Ventura under OCLP. Even then, I have some strain after using it for a few hours, so I suspect I’ve developed a sensitivity to something in macOS itself.

        macsforme

        Thank you for your detailed reply!

        This is good advice, but I still feel like I need an upgrade soon-ish, though I could make do temporarily with an external monitor (I'm looking into a BenQ option). While this 2015 laptop seems to be working fine for me just for the time being, its time is coming to an end. In the last year, I've had some significant issues with the computer massively glitching or even flashing the 'blue screen of death' (Mac equivalent), causing me to force-shutdown and restart. Due to a bad living situation where I was out of heat for months, this computer became exposed to extremely cold temperatures, and while it seems to be working fine now, that couldn't have been good for its lifespan. It's also just slow. 8 GB of RAM doesn't do quite enough for me anymore and won't for the future, so I'm looking for a laptop with a minimum of 16 and preferably 24 GB RAM to last me through the next several years. The Bluetooth also doesn't work, either. And I don't have any kind of DIY skills/experience, either, so doing the battery replacement myself would not be an option. I know finding the right computer will be motivational for me to catch up on my backlog of work, too. That said, it sounds like the 15" M2/M3 Airs cause significant and consistent issues due to flickering that can't be turned off no matter what, so I'm probably best off looking at other options.

        I also use very special glasses (Avulux; I am not affiliated in any way but I HIGHLY recommend them, they've been life-changing for me) for lighting and screens, so the MBP M2 13" Touch Bar option might work for me regardless of the panel display it uses, as long as I can make the screen reliably stable and not flicker (with any kind of dithering after using StillColor, no additional mysterious 'flickering' problem like the M2/M3 Airs have, and no PWM backlighting, either). Maybe that's my best option to upgrade, then, (which massively helps with my productivity, streamlining my phone to my laptop), and just pray I win the "panel lottery" on top of that, if I want to stick with Apple. But since the 13" has also been a struggle for me with eye strain, even with using zoom (some things you can't zoom in on, either), I think I'm going to order a BenQ external monitor whenever I'm at home to minimize the eye strain I get on these 13" screens. Hopefully that will be effective! 😃

          I just ordered a Macbook Pro M2 13" Touch Bar model, refurbished with one year warranty and in "good condition," with 24GB RAM and a 1 TB HD for just under $1,200! Hopefully it works!

          dev