Most folks have no comprehension of the visual disturbances we're experiencing so their answers typically encompass "get your eyes checked" or "get a high refresh monitor".

Needless to say these won't solve the problem. Beyond that it's a tangled web of problematic monitors, hardware and software. Finding something that works means either using older gear or getting lucky with a device or combination.

A common fall-back monitor is the Dell 2410 that a lot of folks have had success with, though you'll obviously have to source one second hand.

    a month later

    I have been trying the Samsung C24FG73. The minimum brightness is around 40 cdm but I don't find the monitor to be painful. Side by side the BenQ EW2750ZL is more painful despite being dimmer. Not at all what I expected. Unfortunately text is a bit weird on this monitor and can be difficult to decipher, I can't really describe it any better.

      I can recommend the Dell U2419H. I've been using it for about 4 months now with no issues here (upgraded from U2414H). It's PWM free and has 'Comfortview' which supposedly lowers the blue light levels. I don't know how effective it is, but I leave it on regardless.

      degen It This is an interesting monitor in that I want to turn it up to see well. Almost in a way I don't want it too dim. I guess my feeling at the moment is that the back light doesn't feel as harsh. However everything has been complicated by a recent switch back to Windows 10 as a trial. I'm going to be back to Windows 7 and compare it with the EW2440L side by side. rookie mistake to change two variables.. Even though the backlight doesn't feel harsh the muscles around my eyes are contracting and I am getting nerve pain in my temples (hypersensitivity in trigeminal nerve). I think that's a Windows 10 thing. If anyone is interested I will report back here on if it was the new monitor, the OS, or both.

      Generally I have extremely little hope that any new piece of technology will be better. I have become very pessimistic, reminds me of your post @KM .

      The technology is not getting better. I don't see it. I've been through a few monitors and it is discouraging. Soon retailers will be blacklisting me lol. My family thinks I'm really weird too.

      I really, really, wish my EW2440L wasn't exhibiting these problems with turning off every couple of minutes or so. This monitor has been exhibiting weird behaviour for a while now and it's making me nervous.

      Bit of a rant but this is really getting to me.

        13 days later

        I had tried the Samsung CFG73, but it eventually caused strain when reading text. I think it might actually be a "regular" eyestrain caused by the strange subpixel setup. Text very blurry and hard to focus on. I really think the Quantum Dot backlight had promise though. I would choose it over a regular WLED backlight anytime I had the choice.

        Now I'm trying the Dell U2518D. A source I trust seems to have erroneously stated the monitor to be 8-bit without dithering. Another source, Rtings, claims it must be 8-bit + FRC due to the gradient results. Didn't find that until the monitor was on the way, but I decided to try it out anyway.

        Painful in an immediate sort of way which I know it won't be any good. Could be because of IPS, or FRC, or some other factor. I wish I could know for sure but there are too many variables with the "smart" firmware in these monitors now with fancy video processing.

          degen I should have a true 8-bit monitor.
          Unfortunately, doesn't seem to be for sale.
          Works great, under Linux. Reboot into Win7 and it does something noticeably different (for the worse)

          Still no good laptop though. It's a expensive endeavor with all this trialing

              Slacor Works great, under Linux. Reboot into Win7 and it does something noticeably different (for the worse)

              How so?

                  JTL I'm not sure. I would guess dithering as it's similar to my laptop at that point.

                    degen Have you ever seen this thread? https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5890 I believe that a few of us probably have issues with just the harshness of the LED back light vs the way CRT did it. This is an issue that gets almost zero coverage which drives me crazy as it seems incredibly important to people who are strained from every LED monitor. I would even bet it had something to do with me when I bought a new 2019 monitor and I had some luck as there was a new panel in there probably with some improvements. I have an old flicker free 2014 BENQ2270 and it's just death to the eyes no matter what setting. I remember having a 2009 Acer netbook that was LED and that was death to my eyes as well. You could always look into LG's Nano screens as they are very similar to quantum dot.

                    • JTL replied to this.

                        jasonpicard Not much of a gamer myself.

                        I like some of the work he does, but I care more about accurate colors and having a static screen (no dithering) over gamer enhancements.

                          Slacor Sure is. I try to stagger purchases and use as many retailers as possible so I don't end up flagged and on some blacklist lol. On my 3rd laptop from Dell, I did find one that was usable though, so I it was worth it to experiment. Returned one and sold the other.

                          • JTL replied to this.

                              degen On my 3rd laptop from Dell, I did find one that was usable though

                              Different models or?

                                  JTL Yeah. First was XPS 13 9380 with the 1080p matte non-touch display. That was moderately painful to look at. Next I tried XPS 15 7590 also with the 1080p matte non-touch display. That was even more painful, possibly because I had to keep it at 26% to avoid PWM, while the XPS 13 did not use PWM.

                                  Was pretty bummed about laptops, but my school was buying me one to use with assistive technology, and they buy Inspirons for students. We decided on Inspiron 7391 (non Black Edition), which comes with 1080p glossy touch display... and it's been good! Interestingly, it's painful driving any external monitor, but on the internal display I can use it. Has Chi Mei panel CMN1384. I inferred it is probably using 26KHz PWM based on this, from my notes:

                                  Innolux bought Chi Mei and the panel has a different designation now, N133HCE-EPA. I got the spec sheet for it from panelook, but I don't know if it has any useful information or how to interpret most of it.

                                  As an aside, I really like glossy now. I don't like the matte coatings at all anymore. Everything has much better clarity this way and the reflections don't bother me. I don't think this has anything to do with the pain though, as a glossy Macbook would cause instant pain.

                                    I have set up side by side Dell S2719DGF (TN), and Dell U2518D (IPS), both are 1440p and running at 60 Hz. Dell S2719DGF can run at 144 Hz but not on my setup.

                                    Very obviously the Dell U2518D is painful to look at, making the muscles around my eyes tense and my face hurt. Very immediate effect. The Dell S2719DGF is comparatively much easier to look at. I'm not sold 100% on it yet but it's not immediately painful and it doesn't have the text legibility issues of the Samsung 24CFG73.

                                    Main differences between the panels is size (25 vs 27 inch on the S2719DGF), which I think is making no difference in this case, panel type (IPS vs TN, I'm currently on the fence about panel type and eye strain, but there is a general trend towards IPS panel being more painful for me, but there are confounding factors. My laptop panel is IPS and not so painful), and FRC (S2719DGF is true 8 bit with no dithering, and U2518D is 8 bit + 2 bit FRC).

                                    14 days later

                                    As is often the case, my initial impressions were wrong. The Dell 2719DGF is not good. It's worse than the Dell U2518D. I now enjoy the Dell U2518D and it is my primary display.

                                    EDIT: Neither is good.

                                    10 days later

                                    During the holidays, as you can see from all my posts, I tried many different monitors. I returned all of them and settled on the Dell U2518D. On my known good set-up with Windows 7 and an old Quadro card, it was enough to get me to switch over from my BenQ EW2440L. Despite my ramblings about IPS being rubbish, I continued to find it superior to the Dell S2719DGF. I tried the Samsung C24FG70. I did enjoy the Quantum Dot backlight (less sensation of wanting to turn the brightness down), but the subpixel arrangement is compromised for viewing text (and essentially everything actually), and if you spend long enough reading on it, I'm convinced even non-tech sensitive people with good vision will eventually experience "regular" eyestrain trying to decipher the text. I look forward to trying a Qauntum Dot backlit monitor on a regular subpixel arrangement. I understand LG has such a thing with their NanoIPS technology, but I noticed several people have reported eyestrain with the LG 27GL850. However, this could just be due to the popularity of the monitor.

                                    The Dell U2518D does have 8 + 2 bit FRC.

                                    EDIT: It is not good.

                                      degen Interesting that you noticed an improvement with the quantum dot.

                                        dev