• AbstractOther
  • Treatments, desensitization, pills, exercises - solutions

GregAtkinson

When I am less anxious and less stressed… flicker bothers me less. So if the problem with the car displays is flicker as opposed to any other issue (usually it is, they use shitty LED's with PWM) then I find that during high stress periods my car can become undriveable.

So while the SSRI's might not actually help the problem, they likely decrease your stress/anxiety drastically, which in turn makes you stronger against these sorts of things.

    GregAtkinson

    Gurm

    Don't you have issue with dryness when taking antidepressants? I have tried them several times and each time they make my dry eyes even drier.

      Dominic

      So I'm not currently taking them, but never noticed this to be a problem when I was. Then again, my doses were exceptionally low.

      Antidepressants have a strong link to helping migraines. It was an ancillary side effect that helped move migraine researchers into different areas of the brain and different neurotransmitters. The big down side being antidepressants usually have some pretty awful side effects for a lot of people.

      GregAtkinson

      Wow, congrats on finding a solution! I'm currently on Zoloft & haven't noticed any improvement with flicker, but maybe I'll have a similar experience to yours if I tried Paxil. It seems like they're relatively similar, so I'm going to ask my Doctor about that.

      Would you mind elaborating on your success with Paxil? For example, are you able to use all problematic screens now with no symptoms?

        5 days later

        bkdo

        Here's a bit more background. I've had headaches, tinnitus and nausea from LEDs since about 2011. My laptops are running an older version of the Intel Graphics driver, and the Intel power-saving technology is disabled when on battery power. My phone is on 100% brightness and I've disabled night shift. My computer monitors & TVs are always set at 100% backlight. The LED lights in my house are a particular brand that doesn't use PWM. I even built my own PWM detector using the guide in another posting. My wife and I drive cars that are 15+ years old. So in my own home/car, with my own electronics, I am fine.

        But when I've gone to some fast food restaurants with big LED displays, or I have to ride in a new car (especially at night with all the dashboard lights), or someone shoves their phone in my face and says "hey, look at this picture!" then I'll get headaches, tinnitus and nausea. Well, at least I used to. But for some reason that stopped a few months ago. I mean, I just realized about a week ago that I hadn't had any headaches in a few months and the only thing I can think of is the antidepressants.

        So I haven't actually tried to do any experiments yet. My headaches and tinnitus can literally last for 2-3 days, so although part of me really wants to do some experiments, part of me is hesitant 😀

        • bkdo replied to this.

          GregAtkinson

          Thanks for sharing your experience. It's reassuring that you were able to find a solution, even if you aren't 100% of what actually solved it yet. Even just knowing a solution is possible is a huge step forward.

          Anyway, I think we'd all be interested in hearing your experience with other problematic devices now that you seem to be improving, would you mind letting us know how those are working for you if you get the chance?

            bkdo

            Absolutely - will do. I have one big project that I'm trying to wrap up in the next couple weeks and then I'll start some experiments. I have a new monitor that I bought that I couldn't really use due to headaches, etc. and a couple old Dells (I think they were 2407wfp) that I bought and couldn't use due to headaches, etc. So I'll start by giving these a shot and reporting back.

            One thing I forgot to mention is that I went out to dinner a couple weeks ago and the light bulbs were flickering like crazy and I had some mild symptoms but I was thinking to myself "boy am I going to suffer tonight" because sometimes I don't get bad symptoms right away, but rather I'll get them an hour later and they can last for days. But then shortly after I left the restaurant I felt fine and didn't experience any bad symptoms.

            We'll see what the experiments show, but what might be the case for me is that Paxil eliminates the long-term/residual effects, but doesn't completely eliminate the short term effects.

            19 days later

            By the way, I'm working with my doctor to find the right dose of Paxil for me. I cut my dose in half about six weeks ago (due to some unrelated side effects I was experiencing) and recently the headaches/tinnitus/etc. have returned. I went over to a friend's house two days ago and they had string lights on their porch where I could visibly see the flicker and sure enough the past two days have been brutal with headaches/tinnitus/etc. So I'm going to increase my Paxil dose, but keep in mind that it can take time (roughly six weeks) for someone's body to adjust to changing the dosage. I'll post back when I have an update.

              a month later

              ryans

              I'll start by saying that I have been reluctant to tell people what my Paxil dose is because I don't want to seem like I'm giving medical advice. But at this point it's too confusing to explain my situation without mentioning the dose. For anyone reading this, please discuss this with your doctor so she can prescribe what's best given your individual situation. This is my story; YMMV.

              I started at 20 mg of Paxil and that fixed my insomnia (and seems to make me less stressed) and also significantly improved my symptoms related to LED exposure. Unfortunately, it made me very tired during the day.

              I then cut my Paxil dose in half to 10 mg and that was basically like not being on Paxil at all. I stayed on that dose for 6 weeks to let my body adjust. My insomnia returned as did my symptoms from LED exposure. So then I split the difference and started taking 15 mg of Paxil and was only able to stay on that dose for about 2-3 weeks because my insomnia was so bad. For me, being at 15 mg was like not being on Paxil at all.

              So about 3 weeks ago I went back to 20 mg and the insomnia is gone and my LED symptoms are significantly reduced. And unfortunately my daytime sleepiness is back. I'm trying to power through the daytime sleepiness with some caffeine and a few other things.

              At the risk of repeating myself, here's a summary of my symptoms: I would get headaches, tinnitus, and nausea from monitors, phones, led lightbulbs, newer car dashboards, etc. In my own home, I was able to configure devices so that they did not bother me (e.g., 100% brightness, turn off intel power saving technology, etc.), but we live in a society where LEDs are everywhere and I would get symptoms from those LEDs. These symptoms would often last for days, even after a fairly brief exposure to LEDs.

              When I'm on 20 mg of Paxil, I still have fairly mild symptoms while I'm exposed to LEDs, but the symptoms go away very shortly after my exposure goes away. So 90% cured, in my opinion.

              I still haven't purposely exposed myself to some of my other monitors that used to cause issues for me. I need to get this daytime sleepiness sorted out first before I'm mentally ready to do some more experiments. But it is definitely something that I will do.

                GregAtkinson

                Thank you for the update. Congrats on finding a solution that gets you to 90% cured, that's very encouraging to hear!

                Would you mind sharing your current usable device list? For example, which phone and computer are you able to use comfortably?

                  GregAtkinson Thanks for the update! Please don't forget about us 😄 ... there are only a few success stories on here and I feel much better reading each one. I'm also wondering what devices you use; I'm a computer programmer myself.

                  If you don't mind me asking, is the primary reason for your prescription for insomnia and the PWM sensitivity is just a happy benefit?

                  bkdo

                  Laptop: Dell i5567-0927 (can use as long as I want with no eyestrain at all)

                  • Brightness: always at 100% (I even went in to the Bios to make sure it was 100%)
                  • Night light: off
                  • Scale: 125%
                  • Layout: 1920x1080
                  • Intel HD Graphics 620 version 27.20.100.9964 (I used to have an old driver version, but Windows updated it for me in September. Thanks, Microsoft…)
                  • Power Plans: "Maximum Performance" for both "On Battery" and "Plugged In"
                  • I never use it below 25% battery level. I think some power-saving feature kicks in that gives me headaches.

                  Monitor: very old Asus VW228TLB-P that I always keep at 100% backlight

                  Phone: Moto e4 plus (it's OK for short periods. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.)

                  Lightbulbs: MaxLite Dimmable 2700k (60W, 75W and 100W) (I never put them in a dimmable switch)

                    GregAtkinson Thanks. That's very interesting. I've also found Intel HD Graphics 620 the most comfortable on my HP EliteBook 840 G6 using driver: 25.20.100.6793. It's the most comfortable modern device I've found!

                    I wonder if there's something special about the Intel HD Graphics 620.

                    Hi Everyone,

                    This topic is technical and vague at the same time, therefore, I will try to summarise my experiences and any potential solutions as best as I can, based on my research.

                    Approximately 6 yrs ago, I suddenly developed dizziness, migraines, eye strain, sometimes sea sickness symptoms. I discovered this was from flicker in led, energy saving, fluorescent lighting and digital displays and screens. Walking in supermarkets, using my old phone etc would trigger the issues.

                    I was seen by numerous opticians, a neuro ophthalmologist, two migraine specialists, (the latter recommended medication), in general I did not get far. I also spoke with professors, a screen manufacturer too for clues.

                    I tried software like f.lux, Truview overlay by crossbow education, monitor shields from the same company, some of these solutions worked for a short period only, till the issues occurred again.

                    I have read supplements may help, e.g. increasing magnesium, cayenne pepper, however have not tried these.

                    As a result of the above, and my research, I currently use a standard projector to watch TV on, use halogen lighting where possible, not energy efficient, however is easy on the eye.

                    I use Eizo EV2450 monitors, with the correct settings, which do not cause me eye strain. https://www.eizoglobal.com/products/flexscan/ev2450/index.html#tab01

                    I use a modern Amoled Xiaomi mobile phone which has an option to turn off flicker, this mode works well for me.

                    Lastly and most importantly I saw an optician who took my issues as a challenge, and between us, we came up with a specific green/yellow tint for glasses I currently wear, which help a great deal. I’m not saying this solution will work for everyone, (some specialists said coloured lenses have a low success rate, others recommended FL41 type pink tints), however, for the last 4 years or so, mine have made a massive difference. I can tolerate most environments and digital screens, (bar modern 4k monitors), which I’m working on. (I’ve tried 3 that are advertised as flicker free, one had DC dimming, however still no joy).

                    I also live a healthy lifestyle, getting to bed at a good time makes a difference too, along with consistent sleeping/waking patterns everyday.

                    Hope I can help with the above,

                    BTW, I’ve not put details of my optician, as I don’t want to be seen as advertising or promoting a service. However, if there is enough interest, I don’t mind sharing his details, he is UK based, in the North West.

                    Please bear with me too, if my replies are slow, or there are a lack of them.

                    • mike replied to this.

                      mike

                      When it first started, better when I looked with one eye, but them became the same within a few weeks'. It felt like everything I tried was temporary, e.g. using a lower resolution worked for a few weeks' then stopped, tint filters worked for a few weeks then stopped etc…

                      • mike replied to this.

                        Jay-ledforum we came up with a specific green/yellow tint for glasses I currently wear, which help a great deal.

                        Jay-ledforum tint filters worked for a few weeks then stopped

                        Can you explain more about the tint glasses/filters, do they work or not?

                          dev