I'm writing this after just returning a new apple studio display which unfortunately resulted in my eyes becoming quite dry and eventually extremely strained combined with my eyes turning into what feels like sandpaper. It seems that any large IPS display causes me issues I've gone through the following devices: * **MacBook Air M4 (2024)** – 13.6” - My eyes feel like they're being constricted, pressurised, and become very painful after some time, combined with nausea. * Macbook Pro 14 m4 - The same as the air, except faster. * **iPhone 16 Pro** – eye strain after looking at this for some time. I'm currently using the following devices: * **MacBook Pro 13″ M1 (2020)** – completely fine, no strain or nausea. I've used it for years night and day. (the model without the notch) * **iPhone 13 Pro** – no issues at all, very comfortable * **MSI VA 27" 1440p 144hz screen** - what I've also used for years without any issues. What I've done: * I visited a two optometrists; both said my eyes were fine and gave me the old 20/20/20 rule * All brightness settings tested — symptoms persist even at high brightness. * Stillcolor app, disabled dithering, no changes. * Displays like the air supposedly have **no PWM**, but something else is causing discomfort. To be honest, I'm a bit at a loss. I guess I could try oled as I have a large OLED LG C3 TV at home which I play games on without any issues (I'm sitting quite far away though)

Struggling to find a new monitor or macbook that doesn't cause pain or nausea

concernedcoder

I'm writing this after just returning a new apple studio display which unfortunately resulted in my eyes becoming quite dry and eventually extremely strained combined with my eyes turning into what feels like sandpaper. It seems that any large IPS display causes me issues

I've gone through the following devices:

MacBook Air M4 (2024) – 13.6” - My eyes feel like they're being constricted, pressurised, and become very painful after some time, combined with nausea.
Macbook Pro 14 m4 - The same as the air, except faster.
iPhone 16 Pro – eye strain after looking at this for some time.

I'm currently using the following devices:

MacBook Pro 13″ M1 (2020) – completely fine, no strain or nausea. I've used it for years night and day. (the model without the notch)
iPhone 13 Pro – no issues at all, very comfortable
MSI VA 27" 1440p 144hz screen - what I've also used for years without any issues.

What I've done:

I visited a two optometrists; both said my eyes were fine and gave me the old 20/20/20 rule
All brightness settings tested — symptoms persist even at high brightness.
Stillcolor app, disabled dithering, no changes.
Displays like the air supposedly have no PWM, but something else is causing discomfort.

To be honest, I'm a bit at a loss. I guess I could try oled as I have a large OLED LG C3 TV at home which I play games on without any issues (I'm sitting quite far away though)

AshX

Glad to see someone test the MacBook Pro 13” M1. This is the model with the Touchbar, correct? What OS is it on, if I may ask, and are you running Stillcolor. I’ve used an iPhone 13 Pro in the past and currently use an iPhone 13 on iOS 15 with no issues.

What you’re likely feeling is what’s called the “gray color flicker” on the Air (there are threads on this). It’s also present on certain Intel Macs. I believe the Studio Display also has this, but I can’t be 100% sure since I detected it in a store with fluorescent lighting.

We don’t know what exactly causes it, but our best guess is it’s hardware FRC temporal dithering done by the screen itself or some sort of GPU power saving flicker similar to PWM. Sequoia is also more uncomfortable from what I’ve seen.

concernedcoder

The latest OS, I've not had an issue between operating system versions. I went onto my m1 mac from an intel long before I even knew I had some kind of issue and have used it comfortably ever since I bought it several years ago.

Current OS: MacOS Sequoia 15.4.1
Stillcolor: No, didn't even know about it until I had an issue with a newer M series mac with the display with the notch.
I did try it on all of the newer M series macs I mentioned that I had an issue with but it did not help at all.

Current iPhone 13 is on the latest OS too.

For me, I don't believe software has made much difference, i believe it's fully hardware but I'm not sure.

I have an M2 Pro Touch Bar 2022 on the way, a refurb, as I believe once the notch is introduced, I start having issues.

I'll update here. I'm hoping it buys me several more years for macs to work on to switch to a nicer screen for my eyes.

I rely on the portability, otherwise I'd just attach an m series mini to one of my monitors (VA) that I can use comfortably.

AshX

concernedcoder

This is useful information, because it does line up with the experience users on r/PWM_sensitive have with iPads. One user has been kind enough to test a ton of iPads and the ones with the gray flicker were uncomfortable and the ones without were fine. Interestingly the LCD iPads that were a problem had Liquid Retina screens (LCD screens without the notch).

This has to be FRC. The fact that the Studio Display gave both you and I the same symptoms as the M4 Air makes no sense other than they’re both 8-bit+FRC screens and I disabled Stillcolor on the Air and connected it to a Studio Display and it made no difference.

The reason I think this is FRC vs. PWM is because it’s present on desktops and monitors, pre-existing the M-series chip. It could be voltage leakage, too, but I think that it’s likely that is only worsening the temporal dithering that Apple is using at or below the 60Hz refresh rate.

So yeah, I’d agree with you it is a hardware problem in that at this point we can’t control the TCON or whatever is controlling the FRC and therefore we can’t fix these devices. The MBP MiniLED machines have PWM and FRC.

I wasn’t confident this was the issue at first on the LCD devices but the past few weeks we’ve gotten a lot of confirmation from many different people. I’m going to see if these pre-liquid retina laptops work for me this month, too. If it does then I have my answer, without a doubt.

concernedcoder

Sorry, just to add, yes my current mac is m1 macbook pro with touchbar

concernedcoder

Ah just adding, this IPS display also gives me the same experience:

Legion Pro 7 16IRX9H
Model: 83DE006CFR

What a headache 🙂

Donux

I did have eye strain with BENQ PD2705Q on macbook, so TCON on the macbook should not have played any role here. But, I have to say, I did not have concrete confirmation from BENQ that this is native 8 bit plus FRC for HDR, and that it is fully flicker free, rather than hybrid DC dimming and PWM solution. They are really smart how they answer my questions. Maybe I will need to ask them again, and formulate the questions correctly, just like I did with Dell robot. Only thing I know, Dell is stocked really well, and IT buyers in companies who buy in bulk, know the concerns of emplyees and may look for better solutions. But this is just a speculation.

Regarding M1 macbook pro, there are mixed reviews. You can google M1 macbook pro and eye strain and you will have many cases of customer complaints. Or data from this forum, https://ledstrain.org/d/2313-my-possible-solution-for-the-eyestrain-on-m1pro-16-macbook-pro/12. So it is clearly not a "sure thing" buy.

concernedcoder

Hi all and AshX.

Just an update.

I've received my refurbished 2022 m2 mac pro with touchbar. Got it all setup.

My hunch was correct, no issues at all with this device. Using it right now. Stillcolor is not installed.

I took another look at the m4 display on the air in the store and within 5 minutes I felt the usual eye discomfort.

Something is fundamentally different about the displays with the notch that I just can't get on with, even though they honestly look the same if not slightly bigger.

AshX

concernedcoder

This is amazing - thank you for the update! I’m assuming it’s on the latest version of Sequoia, too?

I’m going to pick one up hopefully next week. I’m praying it works out because as you probably can relate, this whole thing has been soul crushing and career destroying.

Thanks again because money is tight and I wasn’t sure I wanted to tie up $1k+ for nothing. Fingers crossed! I’m glad it worked for you!

concernedcoder

AshX

Definitely see if you can buy from a place that does returns just in case, but i think everyone here knows this.

I actually put stillcolor on because it just seems like more noise for the eyes which i'd rather not have. I honestly think it's mostly a bit snake oil for me as to if it actually helps or not long term.

Yes I'm on the latest. Software updates have never triggered anything for me personally.

My eyes still ache a little bit but they're honestly still recovering from all the other devices i was trying to adjust to. I think itll take a good week or so more for them to be fully rested.

This issue has kept me up all night before as I was in a bit of a panic wondering what to do, as I pretty much rely on a portable, good laptop that is running macos to perform tasks that earn me money. I'd consider switching to a windows laptop but I really can't be bothered to go through all this hassle again. It's an exhausting process and my heart sinks every time i try a new device and feel my eyes struggling again.

Please do let me know if this works for you!

concernedcoder

AshX did you get one in the end?

concernedcoder

Just as a note: I feel like my eyes prefer font smoothing being off

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I think font smoothing may be done with dithering on the newer macOS.

It was done with antialiasing on the older ones.