Hello ive been reading the forums on and off for a couple of years now and my neurological symptoms of brain burning, eye strain, vertigo, blood shot eyes, severw tinnitus etc. continue to worsen . Ive been diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome and immune dysfuction and am disabled due to it. I do all my shopping and communication with doctors on my brothers surface pro 4, only for minutes at a time. I tried using my aunts 2015 mbp with intel gpu but it was the worst searing brain and eye burn And developed auras withh migraine and my moms samsung chromebook not as bad as the mbp but worse than the surface pro 4. Iphones also feel like the mbp. surface pro 4 core m3 windows lateat update can tolerate the best out of all tried laptops, tablets, phones, but still only for a limited time and its not mine -my old hp desktop with ati radeon 5xxx and lg matte screen very bad brain burning and eye burning latest win 10 fall creators update. -Iphone 6 okay moderate symptoms -Ipod touch 6 gen same as iphone 6 -Ipad mini 1 severe migraines -Iphone 8 plus severe anxiety and head pressure and blurry vision -Old dell xps 13 okay (long gone) -Dell studio xps 1650 very bad -Samsung galaxy s5 and note 5 very bad cannot tolerate amoled screens at all. Im pretty sure my main problem is due to any form of dithering as i bet all apple products apple this to macOS and iOS. Also the weird thing is that i thought the kindle voyage would solve problems but it caused the same problems maybe even worse , even tried the one without the backlight smae thing—- i justvread the e readers use dithering too ,CRAZY. I really need a laptop that does not have any dithering or pwm. Since i am able to tolerate my brothers surface pro 4 a little should i try a surface book 2 with ditherig installed? They both also dont have pwm according to notebookcheck.net also looking for a Fanless device as i am in bed a lot due to my disabilty. Any suggestions or experiences with the surface pro or surfce books or other viable laptops ? Greatly appreciate it.

Sorry to hear that. Could you please write more about your medical background and how you got diagnosed, what the suggested treatments are etc.? Also did you do all tests including MRI? Also maybe where you are from and what your job was previously to this condition, how much you were using the computers, when did you first find the symptoms? Regarding laptops, I use old tech now, bought another of the same 8year old acer laptop. And I am trying to get medical help and desensitize myself to these triggers.

martin ive been sick for 6 years now and was diagnosed based on cdc criteria, but if you do more tesearch younwill find a lot more things i recomend the documentary “unrest” by jen brea and the phoenixeising forums to learn all about cfs/me and other related conditions. Brain mri eeg fine. But also dx with mutiple chemical sensitivities and emf sensitivity due to past mold exposure , ehlers danlos syndrome and mast cell activation disorder. Im pretty much bedbound and totally housebound since becoming sick. I am really sensitive to fluorescent lughts and esp led lightbulbs.

Seefree Im really sorry to hear this. Is there any hope for a treatment? I recommended in another thread about desensitization the wim hof method, maybe it could help you. There is also a facebook support group. All can be researched and done for free (as I did), but you can also pay for courses. You can try the breathing exercises and not the cold exposure, if youre already in an exhausted state.

martin thanks for your concern but ive seen the worlds top specialist, over 70 doctors, specialist, naturopaths, functional medicine docs every subspecialty and over $100,000 in treatments and doctors bills , but im still looking and hoping. Will Hoff i remember early in my disease but tje ice water would a death snetamce for me if i were to try that now lol. Which acer notebook do you use?

Seefree Man I am really sorry to hear that. Its weird and also interesting you have the same or very similar symptoms, but so much more pronounced. I use acer 5820tg with dual Intel and ATI radeon graphics, its 2010 and I have original win 7 home premium on it. Generally people shared here that Dell xps 15 9560 with win 10 pre anniversary vesion (before 1703, ideally 1511) was the best they ever use, but you might try a few as they might have slightly different displays. Please where are you from, USA?

Anyone else? How is the dell xps 13 dithering does ditherig get rid of it?

Laptop suggestions?

ryans

Seefree There are two known causes of dithering on that laptop:
1. Intel Graphics drivers
2. Windows 10 Anniversary Build and up

2 is not confirmed, but I think at least one on here is confident it's true. ditherig.exe can get rid of dithering, it helped some people on here, but does not help me.

I hope you can find a laptop that works for you.

Some people have had success using Linux with modesetting (non Intel) drivers on some laptops.

JTL

ryans ATI/AMD GPU's dither as well. It's very hit and miss.

Some Nvidia 900 and 1000 series cards appear to do dithering on the GPU output, even in the BIOS, and there is currently no way to disable it.

The above isn't really applicable to laptops as the vast marjority of laptops run their display outputs through the Intel GPU even when the Nvidia card is actually rendering frames.

caboy

ryans

Which xps 13? There seems to be a new model every year or so.

I have tried ditherig and have not had any success with it. It does not give a status message or anything when I try to run it.

Peter

I can use a Win 10 Pro Dell Inspiron 15 3000 with AMD Radeon Graphics R5 M430 v17.1.1 and Intel Core i5 7th Gen, but i need to have brightness at 100%, night mode always on (middle of the bar), in Dell Display settings the Blue Light at minus 31 and finally Crizal glasses on.
With this combination i can work all day without any real problems.

Furthermore, If I take regular breaks (as everyone should do) the laptop is causing no issues at all.

martin

Peter Whats the version of windows pro youre using?

Peter

martin

Windows 10 Pro
Version 1709
OS Build 16299.309

Gurm

I see that most of your computers are using newer versions of Windows 10. Do yourself a favor and get an older version installed, and then block updates. You'll be so glad you did.

Dell XPS 13 with the matte screen, and Dell XPS 15 with the matte screen (not touch, not glossy, just the 1080p matte) and windows 10 1511 or 1589 are pretty much the safest screens on the market today that we know of.

ryans

Gurm Are you concerned about security risks with blocking updates?

Seefree

Gurm okay i might try out a dell xps 13. Is yours the 9350 or 9360?

Ive had 3 dells in my lifetime and all of them had quality build issues with overheating, poor build quality, driver issues, and never lastet longer than 3 years before having overheating problems. Ive never considered a dell since. How are the dell xps 13s ive reas a lot of bad stories with not being able to turn off the intel adaptive nrightness CABC or whatever its called, build issues and coil whine.

Gurm

Yeah 1709 has you hating life. That's the "creator's update". You're literally 2 years too new.

martin

Gurm its been said somewhere, but once again, how do you block updates on non pro versikn? Ive seen some hack file here available, but im afraid of it to be a trojan.

JTL

ryans I'd personally be concermed too about blocking updates but Microsoft should fix the underlying issue that causes the eyestrain in newer Windows 10 builds.

martin

ryans im not. Scanning with malware/antivirus every second day is better than headaches.

JTL

martin antivirus alone won't save you. I'd personally use Windows 7 or 8.1 in your position.

I still think Microsoft should figure out what's wrong and solve the root cause. It should be doable.

martin

JTL Did anyone start a thread there or did we write them a petition? If not lets do it.

Seefree

JTL can i install windows 7 on a new windows 10 machcine?

JTL

martin I think @Gurm would be the best suited to do such a thing, as he is the most technical person who has first hand expereince of this issue.

I'd be willing to proofread any posts and/or letters before he sends them too.

JTL

Seefree If it's too new, you might have driver issues.

Seefree

JTL ah right i think i remember reading about how skylake intel processors and newer will only work on windows 10 now.

JTL

Seefree My brother has an HP Zbook 15 G3 with an i7-6700HQ (I think) and it's possible though not trivial to install Windows 7.

I wouldn't recomend it for you, he doesn't have "this issue" or anything similar to begin with.

Gurm

I am strapped for time lately with personal stuff, but I'm HAPPY to write the petition if someone else can do a little legwork to find out who at MS to submit it to. Once I have some more time (late spring, early summer) I can even take lead on this initiative. If someone else wants to sign on here to run point temporarily, I'll totally do the tech write up. I would suggest that we file it as a bug. I do have the ability to open premier tickets through my work but that would unfortunately be misappropriation of work funds.

UPDATE: I have reached out to my corporate TAM (technical account manager) for advice on how to engage with MS on this issue. If this were a problem with users at my office, I'd be raising this with her and with the Premier support team who can directly interface with development leads if needed... but it's not a work issue so I've asked her how to proceed, hoping she can connect us with the right person/people there.

Gurm

Gurm @JTL I got a reply from my TAM. She is sympathetic, and is reaching out to one of her counterparts in consumer support. It's not the same on the consumer side, which makes this more difficult. If this were a problem facing my organization, we'd have a bug fix a resolution or timeline for one within a few weeks, interfacing directly with top-tier technical resources who can talk to the developers. But I think she was impressed that we knew exactly what build caused the problems and what feature we believe to be the origin of the issue. So maybe we'll get some traction! Fingers crossed.

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