Has a true 10 Bit LCD monitor helped your situation?

Clokwork

For anyone who has a true 10 bit monitor (not 8bit +2 FRC), has this helped tamper down the temporal dithering at all? According to some, many OLED panels are 10 bit native, but I can't use modern OLED panels which is why I am hoping for feedback on LCD panels.

Turbo-T

Clokwork

My experience of a 8bit + A-FRC panel was it was harmful for my eyes.

This didn't seem to be the blue light - because my eyes were getting sore even when that was dialed down so much, it affected all the colours.

So my latest attempt is to use this in 8bit colour via HDMI 1.4 and using BetterDisplay. Subjectively this feels better, but annoyingly, I must re-apply it each time I switch the monitor on.

K-Moss

Clokwork Do you or does anyone else know if the Moto Edge 2024 uses FRC?

Aquila

Clokwork The problem is not the monitor, but the OS and the hardware.
If you use a safe gpu as the GTX 1060 or 1660 super and Win 10 1809, every monitor could be safe.

markdotpeters5

Clokwork I want to try this but having a hard time finding a panel that's actually 10-bit! The manufacturers all lie, basically 🙁

radfaraf

Turbo-T Have you seen the "configuration protection" menu item on BetterDisplay it can lock settings to disable it from changing randomly on you.

asus389

I was finally able to use an Apple Pro Display XDR which is reportedly a true 10 bit panel. It did still bother my eyes a little, but less than the laptops and the discomfort went away immediately when I looked away from the screen. The complicating factor with this display is that it is Mini-LED so it has multiple independent dimming zones and likely uses PWM to dim them. It was connected to a base model m2 ultra Mac Pro. Not an inexpensive setup, but I hadn’t had a chance to try one before since they are rare.

The 27 inch Apple studio display was ok for me attached to a M2 Mac mini, but subsequent minis M4 etc it has been worse. AFAIK the 27 inch studio display is not true 10 bit though.

AshX

asus389

What version of MacOS were you using with each device and combination?

I tested the Pro Display XDR in store months ago with a Mac Studio M3 Ultra on MacOS Sequoia 14.2 and it was definitely the most comfortable out of the devices there. An unrealistic setup to purchase and test in a home environment and sadly the Apple Store LED’s flicker at a similarly problematic frequency so that will negate a lot of proper testing.

I’m curious whether the chipset or the OS version is the driving factor for discomfort.

asus389

AshX the Pro Display XDR was connected to a Mac Pro running the most recent version of Mac OS 15.x. I didn’t get the specific version number.

My experience with the studio display and m2 mini would have been around the time they came out. My guess is that it was running MacOS 13 Ventura.

AshX

asus389

Interesting. I ask because I have a Mac on Ventura so perhaps I could replicate testing to get more information.

I think the Pro Display has a lot of issues especially since it’s very large with MiniLED (not great for light or PWM sensitivity). Apple’s spec sheet references a lot of TCON algorithms so that can either be a good or a bad thing.

asus389

AshX I currently use a 2017 intel MacBook Pro on Ventura. It’s fine for me with some small tweaks to settings. The main issue I have in later versions of Mac OS is browsers. My guess is they must now default to rendering everything in an expanded color space which maybe causes dithering? The built in apps, finder, and other apps seem mostly fine. The problems with the browsers started a few years ago with Big Sur, and for a while Chrome and Firefox were unaffected. But now they are.

markdotpeters5

asus389 I feel this.. the change that has made the biggest difference to me on Windows 10 is moving to Edge, and changing the font to Open Sans. If I use Chrome now, INSTANT eye strain.

K-Moss

I found out here the Moto Edge 2024 has no dithering on the default color profile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2uRHQNh_is

JTL

Aquila If you use a safe gpu as the GTX 1060 or 1660 super and Win 10 1809, every monitor could be safe.

Assuming no PWM (not exactly a given considering miniLED and such)
Assuming no inherent FRC or other image processing when fed an 8-bit input signal.

Clokwork

Aquila not necessarily. If a GPU wants to force FRC on a native 8 bit panel, it can and there’s nothing the panel can do about it. That said, if connected to a true 10 bit panel, the GPU might not require FRC or not as much.

Aquila

on Omen 27q (LG) all enviroments are safe , in my experience.

markdotpeters5

Aquila agreed but I want to try a genuine 10-bit panel to see if Windows 11 behaves any differently.

Have seen threads here saying it doesn't do whatever 'it' is that's causing us problems on OLED displays, but obviously we can't tolerate those displays for other reasons.

Donux

Aquila Are you talking about this one?
https://www.hp.com/ch-en/shop/products/monitors/omen-27q-gaming-monitor-27-inch-780h4e9-uuz#techSpecs

I saw now in the shows generation 2 (G2) is mentioned, but I guess those are BOE panels with higher refresh rate. If I could only be able to buy LG version specifically, as it would be hard for someone to ask to check in the warehouse the revision number for such a low value product.

Aquila

Donux
https://ledstrain.org/d/2767-omen-27q-monitor-opple-results-lg-panel-revision-true-8bit/12