Hi - my first post here...I am suffering from the symptoms described many times on this forum I.e. eye-centred headaches and nausea brought on by using certain screens. For me it was a Samsung Galaxy S7 which set me off, I’ve switched to an iPhone 6s now which is a bit better. My question is this - is anyone else out there getting the symptoms with in-car infotainment screens? I have just bought a new BMW 5 series and am getting eye-strain headaches when driving it, even for short periods. It has two main screens, one for sat nav, phone, radio etc and a digital dashboard (speedometer etc.). I can switch off the infotainment screen (which helps a little) but can’t switch off the dashboard, obviously. I can’t control the brightness on either as they adjust automatically during the day. Anyone else getting something like this? I had a new Volvo as a loaner recently and that was worse!

Vip Tesla Model S's (at least of 2-3 years ago) used severe PWM on all the lights. I assume to conserve battery power as it's an electric vehicle.

Vip Galaxy S7 was one of the worst devices for me.

Vip I get persisting eye strain immediately from flickering LEDs inside modern cars. Driving such a car myself would pose a risk even though any doctor would save me from insurance trouble after an accident simply because the condition is unknown and not discoverable by regular oculists or neurological checkups. I can sit in such cars as back-seat passenger when I cover any LED-backlit screens the back seats have to offer. They can not always be turned off. Even then I get irritated eyes when the cockpit's LEDs are in range of sight for some minutes. So far I believe car manufacturers will be the last people on earth to hear anything about flicker-related problems and will happily continue to deploy the most aggravating LEDs and displays the market has to offer. Even their front lights and tail lights flicker at disturbingly low frequencies which even unaffected people complain about.

I am sufferer too and recently had a chance to drive two different cars with in car screens - in between the steering wheel and at center console. I get instant symptoms. Not as bad as my experience with iphone 8, but I lose concentration and wouldn't call it a normal driving experience. Since even ford fiesta has a screen nowadays, I stress that "classics" will be the only way for us to drive around. Or we could modify our cars to have eink screens somehow.

I tried a fairly modern Mazda recently and I was certainly suspicious of both the navigation display, the in dash instrument display (one of which is a screen) and the small HUD display. I had that nagging feeling of screens getting to me after my test drive. Interestingly my wife has a similar car from a couple or so years earlier and I think I'm OK in that one. I have my suspicions that being that bit older it might have CCFL backlighting.

I've always had a problem with the "power saving" lights in modern cars. My current vehicle is a Ford Fusion Hybrid (2014). All the lights are "eco" LED's, including the screens. I put a yellow filter over all the screens, which helped but I still got pretty severe "tired eye" . In the end, I have over 2 years gotten pretty used to the screens and they no longer bother me unless I'm already very tired... which shows that this CAN be accomodated for, just not easily. My girlfriend drives a Subaru Crosstrek. She used to have a 2015, which was fine for me. The new one is a 2018 and the central screen WAS pretty unpleasant but I've slowly gotten used to that as well.

I am photosensitive, so I am legally barred from driving. As far as safety planners are concerned, that solves the problem. Of course I'm also effectively barred from taking the bus, and using many crosswalks, and I get hit by cars because of all the dangerous safety signals. I expect a similar policy response here.

has anyone tried the new class a with 2 10" displays?

Ananiujitha If it is not too invasive, could you please describe your condition? What do you mean with photosensitive? I mean, I would call myself too photosensitive, but I have not been diagnosed as such. Many doctors tell me my eyes are very delicate / sensitive...but that is very qualitative. No test was ever carried out. Would you like to drive a car but you are not allowed or do not you drive because you do not feel confident? Thanks.

KM Even their front lights and tail lights flicker at disturbingly low frequencies which even unaffected people complain about. I have not yet observed disturbs from the flicker, but they look super-bright to me, like upper lights. Very dangerous.

In-car screens

randomboolean

jasonpicard Thanks! Will have to rent a car with halogens, cover all inside leds/screens etc. and test it at night. I also have issues with house halogen lights which are 40-50 Watts or more, so I guess the same goes with car lights 🙂

Yes, it takes some time to change yout lifestyle, but when you adapt, it is easy not to get triggered. 🙂

jasonpicard

randomboolean interesting. I have noticed with myself that lighting that usually gets into LED/CCFL 3200k and above I don't perform well. I use all Incandescent lights. I do have 5 halogens in my game room but all 20 Watts so they are less bright. I'm testing one LED 2700K flicker free in my game room right now. If it works I'm going to buy 3 more amber 2200k flicker free. I want more yellow light. I can tell you for me personally when a LED light hits the 3000k mark I can't use it.

randomboolean

jasonpicard Please share your findings after the test 🙂 Yes, it confuses me a lot too! For me the rule of LED lightning is simple - all LEDS are OK which were bought and used at my home BEFORE I started getting eye strain from LED (yes, I get LED strain starting last year, and from pc's/laptops/monitors ₂₀₁₅). If I change a bulb (for example 2200 K from IKEA) to the same, but new one it gives me strain.

jasonpicard

randomboolean I bought a Phillips bulb because they really advertise the Flicker free. You have to buy the bulbs that say dimmable or they are not flicker free. Also is you can get the amber coating it will alter the spectrum a bit for the better. You want as yellow as possible no white. 1800k to 2200k even with LEDs terrible spectrum issues should be under most people's blue light filter in their eyes. Flicker becomes tricky because the laws don't really say what level of flicker it has to be.

hpst

randomboolean Please share your findings after the test 🙂 Yes, it confuses me a lot too! For me the rule of LED lightning is simple - all LEDS are OK which were bought and used at my home BEFORE I started getting eye strain from LED (yes, I get LED strain starting last year, and from pc's/laptops/monitors 2015). If I change a bulb (for example 2200 K from IKEA) to the same, but new one it gives me strain.

This doesn't make much sense to me. You are saying that you can still use the old bulbs, with the same specs, that you got before your strain started, but if you put a new one with the same specs in it hurts? Are you sure the specs are the same? What happens if you put the old bulb back in?

Do you have any "old" ones still in a box you haven't used? If so what happens when you put those in?

randomboolean

jasonpicard Thanks, that is very interesting idea, I will totally do a test next week. Not sure why I thought that "dimmable" was worse than non-dimmable LED bulb, so never gave it a try.

Could you share more details on the coating? Is it some kind of separate material, which is put on bulb? Or I can order it included with bulb?

randomboolean

hpst I think the specs are the issue here, since every bulb is not made equal (the same with screens). I guess even the smallest difference gives strain to me. Those bulbs were bought back in ₂₀₁₆ and I haven't bought any spare ones, since I did not have issues with LED bulbs at the time. I bought the new ones at 2019 (the same model). So I don't know what has changed during the years, but no new bulb is usable. So it is not logical at all, but yeah, our issue does not make any sense to me either, there is no pattern yet...

The same goes with my only good screen Samsung F2380. These screens were bought for my fathers business back in 2011, all at the same time, the same year, month, day, model, specs - EVERYTHING. They are all still working so i thought I have plenty of spare monitors SINCE they are all the SAME. But I could not be more wrong. None of the other monitors from the same purchase is usable...

hpst

randomboolean They are all still working so i thought I have plenty of spare monitors SINCE they are all the SAME. But I could not be more wrong. None of the other monitors from the same purchase is usable...

On the exact same hardware, gpu etc...doing the same tasks on the same version OS...only that ONE monitor is ok and all the others are painful? What in the world could that be. It's so hard to accept something so minor as manufacturing variation could be a problem. I am not saying your experience in invalid. I am saying I cannot fathom why it should happen. To me its like being able to eat one brand of nuts fine, but the same bag of nuts from the same company sitting on the shelf next to it, maybe with some small, seemingly innocuous variation like color or size, sends you to the hospital with an allergic reaction. It's WEIRD.

jasonpicard

randomboolean if I was you. I would just stick with incandescent for awhile. Sounds like you need to get control of your environment. Control your house, car and your work environment is possible. Then try changing one thing at a time to make sure your can prove what is causing you problems.

randomboolean

hpst That's exactly my thoughts! I tried to convince myself that it is all in my head and this can't be true, but after doing the tests of these same models and getting terrible migraines again and again, I had no choice but accept this as truth.

jasonpicard Thanks, that makes a lot of sense! Actually my life naturally shifted towards this. Most of the lights in my flat are halogens. I stacked ~ 1000 of them to have enough until (if ever) I solve this issue. I had to change my work style - I work from home and go to meetings only if necessary. I accept meetings only on bright days and when lights are not necessary. If they have lights turned on - I politely ask to turn them off. Never had any problem with my clients. Of course I do not work as project manager too much anymore. I am more like consultant, business developer, partner, etc. Most of the work can be done via phone. That is also strange. I got all these business offers only when my health went downhill and this problem became major obstacle. So maybe this is all for the better...

Plsnostrain

randomboolean

Hello

I just bought a new 2021 toyota yaris 1.5. After 15 minutes it gives me horrible eyestrain like you mentioned earlier. I had the vw up gti 2019 for 3 years and never experienced anything like this. Did you find a fix for it?

Liberator005

Plsnostrain

Had the same problem with my ibiza. Ended up selling it. It was to the point where I felt sick while driving, had no choice.

Vip

Plsnostrain The only way I could buy a car now is to find one with analogue dials and a main screen that you can turn off. I’ve recently bought an Audi A6 (without the virtual cockpit option) - it’s tolerable with the screen off but I get a headache almost immediately if I have to use it. The small screen between the dials and the secondary screen for the heating can both be turned off (not quite, they’ve blank but still on) and that helps too.

Good, long test drives (or even renting a model you like) before you buy is a good idea.

Plsnostrain

Liberator005

Yeah, just like the countless computers and phones. Guess we just have to take a loss on something thats not our fault. They probably think were crazy. Still I have sent an email explaining it to the car dealer. Maybe he can sort out a deal. Think i will buy another up gti or tsi, at least I know theyre fine.

Plsnostrain

Vip

Yes, youre right, it was not smart of me not testing it before I bought it, I got a very good offer and they had to send it to me. Thanks for helping out!

ensete

Vip Good, long test drives (or even renting a model you like) before you buy is a good idea.

Yep. Lost a solid $4000 when I discovered that windshields will trigger my issues and had to dump the brand new car I bought

I have resigned myself to only driving older cards without screens for the rest of my life.

Plsnostrain

ensete

I actually believe it can be the windshield as I covered all the screens except the analog speedometer. So did you try to change the windshield? I found on other forums that people experience the same strain with the new windshields.

Seagull

Plsnostrain

ensete

Were the windshields tinted? that's a problem for me.

ensete

Plsnostrain Yes I tried a total of 4 windshield before throwing in the towel. It may have been the way the frame of the car was holding the windshield, who knows, but the refraction gradient on the windshield was different / th windshield "bent" in such a way that the right eye and left eye were getting different optical exposures. It was like wearing a pair of glasses with the wrong prescription in them and made the windshield intolerable to look through

Were the windshields tinted? that's a problem for me.

I believe the issue is related to the increased rake in windshields (the angle they are held at in the car). Windshield rake has been increasing over the years as a way to try and meet rising fuel efficiency standards. When you increase the rake you magnify any distortion caused by the glass not being perfectly flat, which no windshield is. The thinning of A pillars and increased usage of "wrap around" windshields exacerbates the issue since there is now a bend in the windshield right near where you look out, which changes how the light hits your eye. It basically turns the entire windshield into a giant pair of glasses and if you are sensitive to distortions in the 1/4th to 1/2 diopter range, you are F'ed.

ocean10

I'm sensitive to what seems like most(all?) modern OLED and also LCD screens (old LCD screens are completely fine with me). I recently rented a 2021 Ford Bronco for a 1.5 week trip out west. I brought tape and black construction paper to cover up both the center screen and the screen behind the steering wheel. Ended up not needing it and was fine for the 1.5 weeks I had the truck.

Just throwing it out there since I know all of us worry about this in various new cars. I was pleasantly surprised.

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