KM Thanks for sharing. Do you have to use the glasses all the time, or only when at the computer? Do you have problems reading on paper as well?

  • KM replied to this.

    KM Could you send this into my mail as well? Its hard to keep track here, I collect it there and forward it to my optometrist when he has time to look. its mjanas 555 (that at sign) thatgooglemail dot com.

    • KM replied to this.

      martin Will do.

      AGI Never had problems reading on paper or looking at anything else without glasses in sunlight. Most artificial lights and displays: eyes tense and start to hurt withing seconds/minutes, later headaches. Or red, burning eyes. It all depends of the type of lighting somehow. Pain or strained feeling remains for hours up to 24+ hours on the worst displays/lamps. Left eye hurts first and usually gets red in the white area between pupil and nose. In the eye clinic they measured sharpness without glasses and said I have 150% vision. The current report comes from their orthoptics section though which I believe measured almost everything with glasses on.

      • AGI replied to this.
      • AGI likes this.

        KM I do not want to sound too invasive nor make your own business, but I am curios to know what the idea behind the 2 dpt glasses is, if you have 150% vision? If you feel like sharing...
        With regard to prismatic lenses, are they a means to recover, while some kind of eye physiotherapy is carried out, or are they most likely to be worn forever? Thanks.

        Is it a general trend that most of us never wore glasses, still we suffer from so much strain, way beyond what is typically considered CVS?

        • KM replied to this.

          AGI No problem, there can't be enough sharing if we want to solve this problem. The (regular) eye doctors' idea is to fully correct the farsight even though I accommodate and see sharp. They can't rule out the eye strain symptoms aren't caused by the farsight, so they want to correct it and see what happens. On top of that regular doctors' idea, I got the prism patch prescribed by the university eye clinic's orthoptics. There was no talk about eye exercises so far. They want me to wear the prism patch and see if it helps. And if it does, they want me to get regular prism glasses that have the prism inbuilt.

          • AGI replied to this.
          • AGI likes this.

            KM The (regular) eye doctors' idea is to fully correct the farsight even though I accommodate and see sharp.

            So basically you have some moderate hyperopia but you are capable of "accommodating" and you have never needed glasses before. Is it likely something you have always had, or is it age-related?
            That is interesting. I confess I am completely ignorant on the topic, and never thought I would try to get into it (I guess I would not, if I were not struggling with eyestrain). I always thought/heard that myopia leads to the need of glasses in front of a computer screen, whereas hyperopia does not. However, it is probably something I heard years and years ago before the advent of laptops and smartphones, which changed the eye to screen distance at play..

            • KM replied to this.

              AGI So basically you have some moderate hyperopia but you are capable of "accommodating" and you have never needed glasses before. Is it likely something you have always had, or is it age-related?

              I probably always had hyperopia. I recently found old children's glasses I was told I had worn as a kid for some months, but nobody knows anymore why exactly. I let an optician measure those glasses and the spherical values are "R +0.75, L +1.00".

              • AGI likes this.

              AGI doesnt matter what the consensus is. It only mentions organic issues. Acccomodation and vergence are muscle/innervation issues, all muscles can be trained and adjusted via care. I will still need glasses for my nearsighted eye, which is due to physical shape of me eyebulb. But I can train eye muscles to fix/ease heterophoria. Im writing this from a months ago completely unusable iphone. Ill trust my own experience over any Ivy league school any time. I hope I finish my therapy with full success just so my optometrist has more data to publish and prove them wrong.

              10 days later

              Good article explaining 20/20 vision means very little - https://wowvision.net/eye-teaming-tracking-and-focusing-new-research-shows-reading-problems-linked-to-treatable-vision-problems/

              I have gotten to the point where now I dont get headaches, but I do get quite tired when reading on a new macbook for an hour or so. The therapy point is to overdo the reserves and ability to do proper vergence by 50% to have enough spare in cases of being tired/bad day, hopefully will be done in the next four months.

                martin Thanks for sharing. I hope you'll make the full recovery.

                Can you share the full list of exercises you've been doing?

                Is this post the whole list? martin

                  6 days later

                  martin Thanks, Martin. I believe I've been doing some of those exercises in office. My optometrist has an old Atari-like joystick and an old school TV that I wear red-green glasses with.

                  Has your optometrist heard of syntonics (or syntonic phototherapy)?

                    ryans Its not needed for my case (convergence excess), I believe its being used for convergence insufficiency. My therapy now is mostly just doing progressively more difficult variations of the same exercises until I actually overdo my tolerance by about 50% to build up a reserve for long working hours in front of problematic displays. Some days now its so good that I dont even notice my phone being problematic at all, unless I use it for hours all day. Compared to 10-20s of before, its a good progress. Still needs to be set to reduce white point at 80% so either:

                    1. the intensity of light is problem
                    2. Even the very high frequency of PWM is problem, manufacturers know about it and basically having the option to reduce white point also reduces the amplitude between the brightest and darkest point, reducing the stroboscopic effect.
                    • KM likes this.
                    5 days later

                    I have it where my face, jaw and head muscles all tense up too! What's with that? @martin I saw your PDF on heterophoria in Gurm's thread and it fits me pretty well.

                    The single worst contributing factor besides bad devices and lighting is wearing glasses! I can't wear any glasses with my astigmatism correction anymore without pain. Instantly I can feel all the muscles tighten up worse when I put them on, especially the extraocular ones. I have had that script adjusted by so many doctors and it makes no difference as long as the astigmatism portion is in there. Hyperopia correction is fine though for some reason.

                    I used to have a crazy acupuncturist who would needle the extraocular muscles by inserting the needle between the eye and the orbital bone all around my eye. The muscles would instantly release if needle hit the right spot. Got some crazy bruises that way, but it was one of the only things that ever worked. I think the extraocular muscles get tensed and actually move the eye (worsening heterophoria?) and they get "stuck" in the contracted position.

                    I have to tilt my head to the left to read as well. Compensation for heterophoria?

                    • diop replied to this.

                      I had the same thing. Diagnosed as insufficient convergence, did 3 months of visual therapy. It didn't help all that much. Unfortunately a lot of those folks are quacks

                      Has your optometrist heard of syntonics (or syntonic phototherapy)?

                      I'll be exploring that next. Practitioners are few and far between

                        degen You may be onto something.

                        I am pretty badly short sighted (-8 or so in left eye -13 in right eye) and also have astigmatism which my glasses correct.

                        I can use my iPhone without glasses largely without issues, albeit it's almost touching my nose, so isn't recommended to use that close for long periods.

                        I can't really have lenses with astigmatism correction taken out as I wouldn't be able to see 🙂.

                        dev