tfouto No, I have no idea what Im sensitive to. Id guess, given my faulty eye teaming, anything that can disturb it - pwm, blue light, flicker, dither, glare...? If I knew Id know a technical solution. I dont, so Im attempting health solution.

martin He mentioned the best center in the USA being in New York, I think some people already posted a link to health thread.

Visited the center today. Not sure if it's the same one, if you could get a specific place, I'd greatly appreciate it. I would love to see them.

I was told I have definite eye teaming and focusing issues and very bad depth perception and peripheral vision and suggested vision therapy. He couldn't term a specific diagnosis, but that coverence insufficiency is the closest one.

The vision therapy out of pocket will cost a several thousand USD. I am still trying to see if my insurance will pay for some of it. Out of pocket I'm hesitant to pay for it in total unless I knew it'd fix the issue. But, I don't think there's any harm other then cost and time.

Using my new LG G7 gives me these strange muscle twitches and noise sensitivity. Makes me think it's neurological or nerveous system related. The optometrist told me he thinks my nerveos system is very sensitive based on pupil dilation. He said different colors of light have a great affect on the nerveous system and showed how my muscle strength actually weakened when these light colors came on. I wonder if this phone is emitting some color of light that I'm sensitive to.

He also said my eyes were very slow to focus, something you also seem to take a long time with (mine was several seconds, but not quite 10).

I'm considering trying a different behavioral optometrist to see if they come to the same conclusion that VT is helpful.

Glad to hear about your updates though and love the progress. I really hope this fixes your problem. Please keep them up!!

    ryans Amazing to hear that you have some sort of diagnosis and that it fits with the general theory. Really sad to hear how much that costs. Maybe it would pay off for you to take a trip to europe and get the care here, although I dont know how possible it is. When my therapy is finished, including two sets of glasses, It wont cost me more than 600 dollars in total over the 6 months. The prices in usa are outrageous.

    ryans I wish I could find such a doctor here.

      ryans Maybe hold off on any expensive therapies until you can evaluate the efficacy. I have done VT before, and I do maintenance exercises at home twice a week which don't cost me anything. Of course it helps that I've been through the training before and I know how to do the exercises. You can always try strengthening your convergence with simple pencil pushups.

      These exercises will only help for the issue that your eyes eventually get tired after a long session of computer use, or if you're doing a lot of intense work like in Excel or reading a bunch of email all day.

      However, it won't help for the issue where your eyes/brain instantly ache upon looking at the display within seconds/minutes. This happens to me on LED-backlit monitors, and I have not found a solution yet unfortunately. Avoidance is the only recommendation I have in that case. Here's hoping that my Dell U2410 lives a long life!

        JTL I can ask if he knows anyone in BC area. I suspect there's definitely some in Seattle area at the very least. If I didn't live with my folks, I'd let you stay at my place to get a diagnosis and treatment, but the commute is kind of far.

        • JTL replied to this.

          MagnuM However, it won't help for the issue where your eyes/brain instantly ache upon looking at the display within seconds/minutes

          Yeah I'm very skeptical it will help me with neurological or nervous system related issues.

          ryans Thanks.

          Doubt I'll be visiting NY and thereabouts anytime soon though.

          MagnuM Thats incorrect. You train your nervous system also, therefore it can help with a nervous system response over time. Nerves dont grow like muscles do, but there are adjustments and changes too.
          I have an exercise with transparent card, where I see clearly how my vergence works (or doesnt) with accomodation. Its simple and cheap, but you cannot achieve this with pencil pushups.

          My optometrist advised me to use a new iphone I bought (iphone 7) to supplement my training in a way that I have to find a line of when the pain gets too much, stop there and repeat when Im fresh again.
          It seems the new training Im doing kicked my system into adjusting. Two weeks ago I had a migraine from the phone, then nausea within minutes, then sickness. Now I use it all day and except for a tightness and pressure in head when I look into it too long, its ok. Even played a game on it for hour without the glasses and had slight discomfort at the end of the session.
          Also the recovery my body needs has changed, as in I can use it for texting, reading web and so on (even without my glasses now), and if it starts being uncomfortable, I stop and within few minutes to half hour Im ok again, as opposed to the past, when exposure of 15 minutes could result in a days migraine.
          I hope this keeps improving with advances in the training to the point when Im part of the 95% who have no issues whatsoever.
          I have also changed the background to greyer colors, and set nighshift on permanently at about 35%.

          I dont want to get ahead of myself or get my hopes up too much, however if this keeps improving like that, I might be symptom free by the end of the training. I dont dare to use a modern computer yet, but the phone is a welcome improvement.

            martin So the optometrist idea was that you should buy a phone that gives you eye strain, and use it little to little to adapt your brain.

            So how did you get better with your phone? Just getting used? Or doing specific exercises for it?

            You use your phone with prism glasses?

              tfouto Please read back in this thread, the progress is written there. Exercises for convergence excess and accomodation insufficiency. I bought the phone because I needed it, but was afraid it might interfere with my training (it does when I overuse it, tires the eyes so much I cant get results in training after), however he advised me not to be afraid and find a line where I stop and start next day, or later. Couple monhts ago, before the training, I couldnt use it for more than 10-15 minutes and when I did, I had a raging migraine for the rest of the day.
              This by no way means there isnt something different with new display tech. My old iphone 4s still is very comfortable to use for hours.

              Yes with prism glasses but also now without them. Im still advised to use it with glasses though. It also helped to start one eye at a time only, before implementing binocular vision. So for couple days when I was using the phone I always covered one of my eyes (and was switching them every few minutes).

                martin Did it worked better with only one eye at the time?

                Was it worse with your lazy eye?

                  tfouto Not sure, it seemed the same. But the training and the whole issue is indeed made more difficult by the fact that I have shortsightedness only on one eye, therefore extra effort required for both eyes to cooperate properly (its easier for the brain to prefer the sharper one).

                  Came from the doctor. My sight is perfect. Except for the small insuficient convergence. He told me that there was nothing i could do. I asked him if there were eye convergence therapy i could do, he said that it would do anything. But i said i'd like to try, and he gave me a contact. So maybe i would try.

                  I think there is something about convergence. There's just to many people here who have convergence issues. That seems to much to be just a concidence. He's there anyone here who knows from eye exams, that dont have any convergence isuficienct?

                  I think everyone has SOME degree of convergence issues...the eyes are rarely 100% perfect in all ways and the brain does most of the visual work. But lets say its just us....I have heard no plausible theory as to why that would mean only CERTAIN display types etc are bad for us. Maybe something like dithering and its constant movement challenges the eye muscles too much and since ours are already struggling it's painful? But that's nothing more than a reaching guess and no doctor has been able to answer it for me.

                  Also every doctor I have talked to about this has said its dangerous to DIY therapy as you can end up making the problem worse and causing double vision etc. You can of course be given home exercises, but just doing the ones someone else told you about online seems foolish since not everyone's insufficiencies are the same.

                    hpst by your theory since nobody has a plausible theory and nobody knows, it doesn't exist.

                    DIY is dangerous, but not with a therapeut.

                    • hpst replied to this.

                      tfouto I don't know why you think I said/meant either of those things. I didn't say something doesn't exist because there is no plausible theory...I simply said I have heard no plausible theory. As to your second point I said exactly that...home exercises guided by a doctor are one thing.

                        hpst We are in the dark, what seems plausible means 0. That what it is.

                        The inner workings of the eye and brain are too complex for us to say what is plausible, what is logic. That's nothing.

                        We have to try experiment, and hopefully stumble in something.

                          tfouto I did the exercises wrong in the beginning for about two months and yes, it got even worse. You absolutely have to do the specific ones that balance out yout deviation, otherwise nothing will happen or in worst case youll strenghten it even.

                          It has to be led and adjusted by a specialist with checkups. Finding one seems most difficult to most. Even among optometrists many dont believe in heterophoria and only want to get involved when it develops into visible strabismus or diplopia.
                          If your doctors examination doesnt last longer than one hour, its probably bad and you should go elsewhere. Mine took 2.

                          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterophoria

                          Id like to share all the exercises I did so far and also some Im about to do, to show you how complex such issues can be and that pencil pushups you found on the internet probably wont really do it justice:

                          -tranaglyphs with 3d (red, green) glasses - images that go futher and further apart (red and green image respectively) and I am trying to keep them fused, see peripheral points and checking for depth perception on each step, my vision being separated by the colored glasses. That is done by small steps timed by a metronome to keep a steady tempo and increasing difficulty. This trains endurance.

                          -tranaglyhps like in the previous description, but now only two steps a lot further apart, you jump back and forth. These train explosive power in the eye muscles and usually lead to better results in the endurance exercise before

                          -brock string (now completed), following a string from near to far point, keeping fusion, checking if I have input in both eyes, trying to fuse the point where the string crosses with the point where I accomodate

                          -accomodation on each eye separately, with the other one covered - switching two lenses in front of one eye for a minute at a time, refocusing through the lens on a text of specific size and specific distance. Future exercise is to do this binocularly, so to use both eyes at the same time.

                          -transparent card - the most recent and most fun, as it doesnt require any computer and makes me realize what Im trying to achieve. Card with images progressively further apart that you try to connect with depth perception first by converging your eyes in front of the card, and then behind (that for me is the problem, not enough divergence power and convergence overpowered). Then when the images fuse, you should also see them sharp (accomodate binocularly) and with depth perception (keeping proper eye vergence).

                          There is more exercises to come and Im about halfway done at best. As you can see, its a lot more complex than anything youll find on youtube or on the net, unfortunately. This is very neglected field but work is being done on it being more available.

                          Ive been using my new iphone 7 without glasses all day yesterday, got a bit of tension in the evening which went away quite quickly once I laid it down. I dont wanna get ahead of myself, but it seems to be improving day by day. Previously this would result in a migraine that I would still have while writing this.
                          I recommend you ask your specialist if they even know about these exercises, and if they dont, move on to someone else.

                            dev