Windows 10 21h2 forces temporal dithering while 1809 does not

jordan

Hello guys I was testing 21h2 w10 and 1809 w10 today with a rx 6600,1660 super and 7950x igpu. For the test tool I am using my eink monitor (boox mira pro) since it actually makes seeing the dithering possible without a microscope or high speed camera. On 1809 before and after GPU driver install there is zero temporal dithering present. When I boot 21h2 there is temporal dithering right away on the microsoft basic video driver. I installed the driver to each card and still the dithering is present. I then tried novideo srgb software to force dithering off and it had zero effect. This is 100% something microsoft is doing to windows. I also tried hdmi and displayport which showed no difference. The eink monitor is seen as a true 8 bit monitor which makes it a great tool for testing.

When I tested a ps5 the other day the temporal dithering looked different as in moving faster while win10 21h2 is moving at a lower frequency. So not all temporal dithering is equal with its pattern/freq its alternating. Eink monitors are completely static and do NOT refresh when nothing is moving on the screen so with me seeing things move when they shouldnt 100% confirms its temporal dithering.

https://youtube.com/shorts/LhETsI28BBo

AshX

jordan

Jordan, do you have any Macs you can test? I’d be curious if Stillcolor or BetterDisplay has an impact. I may be misremembering, but I thought someone tested it on EINK and could see the dithering similarly to what you’ve seen with the PS5.

WhisperingWind

AshX

I tested macOS 14 and 15 (M1) using an external HDMI recorder. In my case, StillColor and BetterDisplay disable temporal dithering.

I also tested Windows 10 22H2 (19045.5371) and Windows 11 24H2 with an RX 6600; there’s no temporal dithering by default either. But my eyes don’t like Windows 11; apparently, in my case, something other than temporal dithering is affecting my eyes. So it looks like my Windows OS will be Windows 10 22H2 (19045.5371) for a very long time 🙂

jordan

I haven’t tried Windows 10 22H1; there might be some peculiarity in the driver stack, or it might depend on the monitor’s EDID. It would be great if you could try Windows 10 22H2 on your E Ink monitor. I’m curious to see what the result will be.

karut

What are disadvantages of using the 1809 version?

Did you also try Linux?

jordan

karut Not really sure but I think the iot version gets updates till like 2032 ?

I have not tried linux yet but might try cachyos soon and see how things look.

si_edgey

Very interesting. I guess this would be a nice method of testing GPU drivers to ensure that they are outputting a static image, although as we know when you the plug into another monitor it could trigger the GPU to dither the output or perform other pixel level manipulation. Still, it's nice to see it so clearly.

jordan

si_edgey well this display is seen as true 8bit and doesn't support 6 or 10bit selection so I guess if a monitor is capable of 8+2 maybe it could be different? I just tested cachyos both xcfe and cinnamon which both dither BUT Nvidia x server settings has a disable option which fully works. So Linux is dither free.

photon78s

jordan

For your linux test, which Nvidia GPU are you using to get the x server settings to show these dithering options?

photon78s

I will add this approach to my list:

https://ledstrain.org/d/3743-screen-testing-tools/2

jordan

photon78s I am using a nvidia 1660 super. I signed in with cinnamon and click the bottom left button and search nvidia then it pops up. (cachyos)
I have to click my monitor on the side bar and then click controls at the top. Each reboot doesnt auto load it so it will dither until you reopen nvidia x server settings app, then it loads what you disabled.

photon78s

jordan

I haven't tried cachyos yet. Does this also work with linux mint?

jordan

photon78s I'm not sure about mint I never tried it personally.

jordan

I was able to get it to default to disable dithering on each boot with the 1660s.

jordan

AshX I no longer own any macs but my brother has a 2019 MBP with radeon gpu I could probably test. My buddy has a 13in boox mira and he saw it dither since the screen was flashing but stillcolor stopped that. I also heard from a guy on reddit that the anker 563 display link hub also gave the same results.

WhisperingWind haven’t tried Windows 10 22H1; there might be some peculiarity in the driver stack, or it might depend on the monitor’s EDID. It would be great if you could try Windows 10 22H2 on your E Ink monitor. I’m curious to see what the result will be.

I just created a new post about 22h2 and other builds after 1809. Theyre all bad sadly.

photon78s

WhisperingWind

Have you tried changing the UI of windows 11. Might help rule out cosmetic factors.

https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/simple-tweaks-i-used-to-bring-the-windows-10-look-to-windows-11

Sunspark

I have been using 19042/20H2 for years, it's good. If it dithers, it is subtle enough that it doesn't cause issues with the monitor, which is actually a FRC (old implementation) panel.

I don't love Linux, but the way Microsoft is moving with all the bugs and problems, increasingly people should look to move away from them if they are able to. The newest bug the other day in Windows 11 was one where if you close the X on the task manager, it spawns another task manager process. This is what you get with AI slop offshored "coders".