TV's

JTL

I have Samsung Smart TV 2013 (unknown model), has slight PWM at 10 brightness but doesn't affect me at normal viewing distance and on the DSLR test it requires a very high shutter speed to be visible.

I read somewhere that updated firmware on Samsung TV's can reduce PWM frequency, which is bad.

I also have a Panasonic Plasma TV from 2010. I just tried it over HDMI to my Macbook Pro and noticed some sort of flicker with it just by the naked eye. Not going to try that again...

Slacor

JTL I just tried it over HDMI to my Macbook Pro and noticed some sort of flicker with it just by the naked eye.

The Mac or the TV?

JTL

I barely watch TV by the way, just thought I'd start a thread about it.

JTL

Slacor

I read most Plasma TV"s use PWM to create colors, kind of like dithering. Later models do it at 600hz.

JTL

On the Plasma TV

KM

Compared to desktop monitors, TVs are several years behind when it comes to eye-friendliness. I did not see any TV yet that is advertised as "flicker-free". Then again I did not actively search for usable TVs for some years. I rarely watch TV, but a bigger screen than your average desktop monitor would be nice when you have visitors. Luckily there is hardware for tablets, smartphones and PCs with which you can watch TV if you need to.

JTL

KM Indeed. BenQ has "extra large displays" but those are on special order. If those were flicker free I assume you could just hook up a cable box or something through HDMI and use external speakers (I got a pretty nice speaker setup for example)

helloworld

It's interesting how different people react in distinct ways to the same stimuli. I always found the current televisions on sale nowadays a lot less aggressive on the eyes comparing to our desktop / laptop monitors. I seldom see TV (or use a TV display) but I can actually tolerate them quite well, in stark contrast with what happens with LED displays.

Sometimes I go to my grandmother's house and she still has one of those old cubic televisions. I really hate that television (and the flickering is awful..). I often wonder if the TV has been like that since its early days, or if it's actually getting worse over time..

JTL

helloworld Wonder if you could use a TV at normal viewing distance as a monitor then?

helloworld

JTL I really doubt it. Maybe part of the reason they don't strain me so much is that they're far away from me.

degen

I have a Panasonic ST60 (last model before Panasonic stopped making plasmas, and I don't believe plasma tech has changed much since then, as Panny tried to pick up where Pioneer left off) and I can use it for approximately 1 hour. Plasma's produce very noticeable dithering to create grays, but otherwise the TV is easy on my eyes. I can view it much longer when it is hooked up to my cable box as opposed to watching movies on it with my laptop.

JTL

helloworld Fair enough.

Harrison

Hey. I just wanted to ask if some of you found any TV models which are ok for your eyes?
Maybe somebody has more information like @Kray who mentionend the different display types from all the smartphone manufacturers.

jasonpicard

I love Plasma TV's and have never had any eye strain flicker issues with them. I have 3 Samsung plasma TV's. One I have had for 5 years the other two I have had for about two years. I even hook my computers up to them with no issues. We have one TV in the house that Is LED I can't even look at it for a minute without eye pain.

Gurm

I'm super interested in this as well. I have had a hard time with newer TV's. I had a Samsung 46" 1080p LCD (CCFL lit) from 2008/2009 that was quite good (60hz, 300 series, really basic TV). I got a 2012-2013 model CCFL Toshiba (720p) 32", which I quickly got used to.

I've never had a problem with Plasmas (unless the source was bad, a la bad FRC/Temporal) but I got a newer LCD (LG, 2012 model, 120hz, 43") and it was TERRIBLE. Instant headaches after a minute.

My girlfriend has a 2014-model Toshiba 40", it was fine even though LED backlit.

So I grabbed a brand new Toshiba 1080p LED from Best Buy. It's ... ok. Not great, not as good as the others, but tolerable. I'd love to say I loved it, but I just don't. I tolerate it.

I'd love to know which new TV's are better than just "tolerable" and are actually "good". What does everyone here use that isn't a Plasma?

My primary TV, by the way, is a 60" LG Plasma (final model before they stopped producing Plasmas last year).

degen

I need the distance that TVs afford for my eye health, but my Panasonic ST60 (plasma) is causing me pain ATM, but my eyes have already been weakened today by trying to get my iPhone settings right (but settings never work.. a bad display is almost always a bad display at any setting IME).

How do you find the dithering on your plasma Gurm? I know you have to avoid temporal dithering, do plasma's use a different kind of dithering?

To all: Model #s are always appreciated, if you get a chance.

Gurm

Plasmas use a much "coarser" temporal dithering, and they always have. A "grey box" will actually be a marching series of pixels, similar to old analogue TV snow, and this is actually perfectly OK for my eyes. But it would be foolish to assume it's ok for everyone else's eyes. There is no "individual pixel temporal dithering" that occurs on a Plasma but rather "field dithering" which may certainly trigger other people's eyestrain.

As for how I know that the Xbox One is still dithering on the plasma... well, the plasma is the BEST way to view the xbox one, but I can still only do so for short times. Since it's a Radeon chip, my assumption is FRC/Temporal. It's very hard to directly test for!

degen

Link I always thought that because plasma's had no backlight, they didn't use PWM, but maybe I am wrong. I thought the flicker on plasma's was actually the heavy "coarse" PWM, as lowering the brightness on a plasma (on most plasma's this would mean lowering the contrast) usually decreases the flickering effect.

If you are really worried cut the plasma out of your routine for a couple of weeks and see if your eye's improve.

Here is a great post I found from @Gurm about plasma dithering:

Gurm Plasmas use a much "coarser" temporal dithering, and they always have. A "grey box" will actually be a marching series of pixels, similar to old analogue TV snow, and this is actually perfectly OK for my eyes. But it would be foolish to assume it's ok for everyone else's eyes. There is no "individual pixel temporal dithering" that occurs on a Plasma but rather "field dithering" which may certainly trigger other people's eyestrain.

As for how I know that the Xbox One is still dithering on the plasma... well, the plasma is the BEST way to view the xbox one, but I can still only do so for short times. Since it's a Radeon chip, my assumption is FRC/Temporal. It's very hard to directly test for!

Sunspark

Current model Sony TVs do not use PWM on the backlight. This is measurable on a scope.. flat lines, even at 0%. Can't speak to any other comfort aspects however as I don't own one at the present time. Panels are primarily VA technology, but some in specific sizes are IPS.

JTL

http://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php5/SmoothBacklight:_a_Hardware_Mod_for_Improving_Backlight_PWM_Frequency_of_Your_TV

Also have some ideas on overriding PWM frequency of Android devices I remember some notes on some mailing list about that.