Found some new stuff while poking around with the blurred pictures.
Still with the 2018 MacBook Pro 15” intel UHD 630/ATI Radeon Pro 555X with LG Screen

1.Color profiles to make a difference - the default profile (color lcd) is a lot smoother than say Adobe RGB1998 - so the older Adobe1998 might have less dithering. Who knows - but it does produce more color bands.
Link to video

https://streamable.com/d2was

2.With both True Tone OFF and Night Shift OFF the display adds like an additional dithering layer when either of them is turned off (and the other one is off as well)
Link to video - notice the black color bands on the left changing, stoping and after a second the final pop of smoothness.

https://streamable.com/yjljj

3.ATI is the devil indeed. When running the display with Intel I see more bands (maybe this means less dithering) but with ATI enabled - everything is smoothed out - means more dithering I guess.

https://streamable.com/54m3s

Will try to do a full workday with this new configuration soon-ish and see how it holds up.
The integrated LG display on this model is sluggish as hell though, so even a couple of back and forth swipes in that place where all the app icons are is making me puke 😃

Also this has got me thinking that maybe the 2018 15” are ok cause they have only Intel stuff and with older color profile and nightshift on (not for the yellow tone but somehow nightshift removes some dithering) that they might be ok.

Maybe someone has some newer MacBooks they can test this out on. 2015 or 2017 ones.

Steps to reproduce all of the above. - open Spotify web player playlist (it has this nice gradient there) and mess around with the display settings (eg color to Adobe RGB1998 or default), TrueTone on and off (with adobe color profile and nightshift off at the same time) and performance settings Automatic graphics switching on and off.

  • JTL replied to this.

    I've found various "better than others" Macbooks, but the only one I found that was AWESOME was an early 2013 with nVidia graphics. The screen was glossy, it was just a standard unit. The problem is that the config was sub-optimal - 8GB - and by now the screen was quite scuffed. But ZERO pain when using it, which is a great thing for me. I'd love to find a loaded-up one with the same config.

      deepflame 15" Early 2013. nVidia chip. I've found some newer 13's that aren't too terrible, but they're far from perfect. They're what I'd call "ok", but not what I'd want to relax and play a game on.

          Gurm I see. Would you mind making a list of MBPs you tested with ratings of "eyefriendlyness" from 1 to 10 or something? Would be really interested in your findings.
          Currently I was using a 2018 13'' model that I cannot stand anymore after looking at it for some seconds. Really bad. Now I am trying my 2015 13'' model again which seems to be better.

            Not to rain on this or anything, but be aware that Apple does issue firmware updates in addition to software updates. A used system from years ago would have had an update or two along the way. It's not enough to identify a model, it is also required to identify a point in time as well.

            • JTL replied to this.

              Sunspark Do you have any evidence that the firmware updates for Mac hardware impact the display quality?

              The most major Macbook firmware update in recent times enabled NVMe SSD support in a few recent Macbook Pro models (pre touchbar)

                  JTL It would be a pretty major update that would touch the vBIOS. I'm not even sure if the nVidia firmware CAN be flashed on a Macbook. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the Intel firmware could.

                  • JTL replied to this.

                      JTL Hi, no I don't have evidence, but, I remember from my old Macbook that firmware updates included EFI updates and to the SMC as well. They did not come fast and furious, but they existed and as such represent a material change separate from that of an OS. You can see a list for older models here, https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT201518

                      Apple probably never touches the vBIOS, but if they did, it would probably be bundled into something like the SMC.. SMC stands for system management controller, and is the logic board. You just don't know, unless one has a tool that can query the system at a low-level in some manner and compare before and after.

                      OS updates include the firmware updates.

                      • JTL replied to this.

                          Gurm In theory it might be possible but Apple does things differently from most OEM's.

                          Sunspark You just don't know, unless one has a tool that can query the system at a low-level in some manner and compare before and after.

                          Its probably possible under Linux.

                              a month later

                              Gurm Deep within the depths of the 10.14 installer DMG.

                              (Still on 10.11 here, looking to upgrade soon because 10.11 is getting long in the tooth.

                              jtl-macbookpro:AMDFirmware jtl$ pwd
/Volumes/jtl/10.14 firmware/extract/Scripts/Tools/AMDFirmware
jtl-macbookpro:AMDFirmware jtl$ ls
total 472
drwx------  1 jtl  staff    16K 20 Sep 21:27 .
drwx------  1 jtl  staff    16K 20 Sep 18:13 ..
-rwx------  1 jtl  staff   179K 17 Aug 15:47 AMDvbiosupdater.efi
-rwx------  1 jtl  staff   2.9K 20 Sep 21:15 AMDvbiosupdater.efi.j132ap.im4m
-rwx------  1 jtl  staff   2.9K 20 Sep 21:15 AMDvbiosupdater.efi.j137ap.im4m
-rwx------  1 jtl  staff   2.9K 20 Sep 21:15 AMDvbiosupdater.efi.j680ap.im4m
drwx------  1 jtl  staff    16K 20 Sep 18:13 Payloads

                              I'll see if I can find anything else interesting.

                                2 months later

                                Have anybody tried SwitchResX app? It has the switch labeled "Millions of Colors/Billions of Colors". Should be a 8bit/10bit switch.

                                When I set it to millions — screen starts to look much more "static" for my eyes and gradient banding appears.

                                  ryans Yes, sorry. Macbook Pro 2017, Radeon Pro 560/Intel HD 630, Mojave.

                                    poliakov

                                    I do use SwitchResX to pick non retina resolution on my MBP 13''. Also have Air''. The millions is selected by default (8bit).
                                    Maybe the billions(10bit) was picked on the 15inch laptops or for the 27'' desktop.

                                    I keep it on millions, I had tried the billions in the past but I did not feel any difference.

                                      poliakov
                                      Hei, dusted off my 2500€ paperweight and tried it out 🙂
                                      (test image: spotify discover weekly background gradient)

                                      I pulled samples into one big screenshot with some additional info - check it out.
                                      Looks like SwitchResX outputs the same result as having an older color profile (AdobeRGB 1998) and NightShift: On.

                                      Wierd thing is that my daily OK work computer Lenovo T440s 2015-ish with 50Hrz Intel HD raphics family is having also this finer mesh like gradient (like MP default first setting) but is perfectly normal for me to look at. Comparing these two just by looks the Mackbook screen has a lot more ghosting going on when I move my mose around (so it might be lower in refresh Hrz?)

                                      Anyway, will try to do some longer work with the settings of adobeRGB, nightshift and SwitchResX on and report back how it went.

                                      Also to note when the Mackbook Pro Radeon Pro kicks in then nothing matters, its all really smooth gradients no color settings or SwitchResX affect that.

                                      https://i.imgur.com/4fpnDJ3.jpg

                                        Definitely interested in staying in the loop. I've had largely the same issues with new displays, and swore for a while that it was some sort of dithering to do with 8-bit color. Just ordered a 15" MBP 2018 after upgrading to Win10 on my old work computer started to make me feel funny much the way my purchase earlier this year of a PC w/an 8700k/1070 did. Thought it might be a Win10 thing. Maybe not...

                                        There's an extensive Intel thread on the issue here: https://forums.intel.com/s/question/0D50P0000490Nm4SAE/eye-strain?language=en_US

                                        They allegedly did tons of testing and couldn't find anything, which is really discouraging. It seemed like they even took in the hardware of some users having issues and had it third-party tested. Really impressed with the diligence, if disappointed by the result.

                                        Things that do seem to make things worse for me:
                                        - 8 bit color depth
                                        - Win10 (maybe that just =newer Intel drivers?)

                                        Things that don't bother me at all:
                                        - My iPhone X
                                        - My old iPad Air (OG)
                                        - My HP Zbook G3 before Win10 upgrade / with 6 bit default color depth. PWM for brightness reduction didn't even bug me here

                                        I continue to feel like white screens look like they're moving on these newer machines. It's like looking at colorful static. I briefly see the same thing when looking away from them at a "normal" screen before my eyes settle. It's like something is preventing my eyes from properly focusing and forces squinting, drives headaches. A familiar tale, I know - just wanted to join this discussion here, as I type this on my day-old MBP that I want to love :c

                                        • JTL replied to this.
                                          dev