jasonpicard The link takes me to a 5yo post with 2017 as the most recent reply. Did you mean to link another one?

      hpst I will try my best to answer this. https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5327&start=30 On Blur Busters there is an extensive list of information from 2013 till now. This quote is taken from the head guy at blur busters on this link I just posted

      "Some displays have scan-converting electronics, especially when panel scanout velocity or direction diverges from cable scanout. I know that some panels are fixed-horizontal-scanrate (e.g. BenQ XL2540 240Hz and XL2735 1440p) while some panels are variable-scanrate (e.g. BenQ XL2720Z 144Hz@1080p). So that's why the XL2540 has crappy 60Hz lag, it framebuffers the slower scanning 1/60sec cable signal before the fast 1/240sec scanout.

      Some displays scan in a different direction (bottom to top), or require full-framebuffer preprocessing, so they have to framebuffer the full refresh cycle before beginning to scanout. RTINGS found a few HDTVs that scanned bottom-to-top. Additionally I know all DLP projectors & plasma displays split a refresh cycle into multiple subfields (although the two technologies do it very differently, each refresh cycles are still effectively split up into lower-bit-depth dithered subfields) -- so DLP/plasma mandatorily framebuffers a full refresh cycle before beginning the first subfield output.

      If it is TN, the GtG lag is insignificant enough statistically (it becomes more of a visual complaint, and no longer a lag complaint -- like overshoot artifacts, like 1 pixel bright overshoot artifact at 2000 pixels/sec for imperfect 0.5ms overdrive -- still a human-visible ghosting).

      Just another error margin item to pay attention to.

      I believe it is a bunch of different reasons. What you are explaining to me is just your take. I have learned that everyone sees things different. What you are saying doesn't apply to me. I can't use any CCFL screen or any LED screen unless I can get the motion blur to an acceptable level. Also I think screen brightness might have some sort of effect on me to. I seem to like dim screens. I'm mainly trying to point out rules that a lot of people seem to over look that apply to every LED and CCFL. CCFL uses Phosphor which to my understanding is softer on the eyes. The head guy at Blur Busters told me that LED doesn't use phosphor on the blue part of the spectrum only the red and green. This makes it harder for a lot of people to process. CRT and plasma use phosphor which Plasma is super easy on my eyes and Sony Wega CRT is super easy on my eyes as well. I believe he said 120 LED with BFI was compared to 75 HZ CRT. Even though BFI induces flicker it's not the same as PWM flicker. Users on his site who can't use monitors with PWM seem to perform great with BFI. It is all user dependant. I think CCFL depending on the panel will draw to screen differently. It seems for me TN works better for me. Another lesson I learned was if you can use Plasma/CRT or DLP dither is not your issue. As the dither on those 3 things is way worse then LED could produce. In the one link in the other thread with the dither he gives multiple examples. He even mentions how a 165HZ IPS is the ultimate if you think flicker or dither is your main problem. TN I believe has the worst dither and I think my monitor I mentioned that works for me is 6 Bit + FRC but clearly that is not my issue. I can't use any CCFL or any LED except flicker free OLED phones. I currently use a Yotaphone 2 and used to own a Samsung S2. I'm planning on buying one of the new DC dimmed oled phones soon. I want a higher refresh rate one though. The nubia gaming phone is 90 hz dc dimmed OLED. OLED follows the same rules with motion blur as well. Just because the colors can change fast on OLED the MPRT time is slow at 60hz. Again it creates the sample and hold issues (Eye Tracking) which for me is probably my main reason for eye strain or one of them.

        hpst Sorry it is an old post but it's got incredible information on it.

        • hpst replied to this.

            jasonpicard You had mentioned a new post started so I thought it might have been the wrong link.

            I wasn't familiar with BFI. Is this a TV only thing or are computer displays inserting these frames based on GPU instructions etc?

            I don't watch TV nor do I have access to Plasma or CRT really so cannot test that theory easily but would be interested to know. I have a PWM free laptop that is miserable, and heavy PWM ones that is ok, so that in itself clearly isn't my problem. I cannot pin down one offending factor that always hurts or helps.

                hpst BFI is used quite a bit now. It's on most new mid to higher end TV's and almost all Gaming monitors. It brings a CRT like clarity to LED. It has to be used at 120HZ or higher to be comfortable. It almost made a Samsung 2017VA gaming monitor I had comfortable. When I would use it at 120HZ I could tolerate it for quite a while. It still wasn't as good as my new monitor. I think to diagnose yourself you need to get ahold of multiple tech to get clues. I picked up my CRT Sony Wega at a garage sale for 10 dollars. My Plasma TV's I own 7 now in my whole house I get for super cheap as well. usually pay 125 to 250 CDN for them. I always look for 2012 or 2013 models.

                  hpst I also used to have an old CRT monitor that in one version of Linux I could get it to double scan(Flicker Free) that was pretty comfortable. It broke though. I couldn't get that option in any other OS though thought that was strange.

                      jasonpicard A question about your good monitor - can you attach to any device with any OS, without having an eye strain?

                      Also, have you tried buying another monitor of the same model?

                          randomboolean I have hooked up my Mega SG, Retro USB, PS3, PS4 and my computer so far no issues. I don't run a blue filter and I just keep over drive at max and contrast at 55. Brightness Is at 0 I think. I notice brightness is fine from 0 - 20. The guys on Blur Busters were going on about how the panel in it was the first of it's kind. LG has a new IPS version of this monitor coming out July 7 I think and it's supposed to be the fastest IPS in existence at least for now. I wonder if it will have the same panel and over drive magic. I am probably going to buy another one of these but I might buy the IPS still not sure. My game room is already out of control🙂 I have 3 plasmas and 1 CRT and this gaming monitor. I like gaming on this monitor better then my plasma TV's now. I played Sonic 2 on it and couldn't tell the difference visually between the Plasma and the monitor for motion blur which is a first for me. I always used to complain about how crappy LED monitors were for motion blur. It has 2 HDMI ports on so I always hook systems up to it. I just beat Bloodstained for PS4 and that was about 30 hours. I played a steam game that I'm about 15 hours into. Playing a Sega CD game on an emulator right now. Nothing I do on it causes strain.

                              randomboolean https://www.blurbusters.com/e3-lg-announces-144hz-ips-gaming-monitors-with-ul-tested-1ms-gtg-response/ Here is the IPS monitor versions. This one is probably better for people with dithering issues. The blur busters guy had a thread showing a bunch of math numbers with different panel types with dithering and how IPS was the best. One other intersting thing is that this IPS version is a nano IPS which is LG's version of quantum dot. So you get better lighting then regular W-LED.

                                degen I know the craziness of all this. I'm sure I bought and returned almost 20 monitors in the last six months. Actually a few I got stuck with lol. If you got it from Amazon they will take it back if it doesn't work.

                                  Ordered the 27GL850, will come out in two weeks and I will post results 😉 Pretty certain I have issues with dithering.

                                    verlaeufer Pretty certain I have issues with dithering.

                                    If dithering is your problem a new monitor isn't going to solve it since it comes from the GPU. Are you just trying to rule out other stuff?

                                        hpst There is differences in the quality of dithering depending on your panel and the new IPS panels seem to work. I was in the store yesterday, and with the LGs I seemed to be fine.

                                        I can slighty rule out refresh rate and PMW, due to various different displays I am sitting in front of: VN/TN/60hz/144hz/Full HD/WQHD Pc with 1070 or Intel Onboard Graphics as well as Macbook Pro/iPhone 7.

                                        • Resolution doesn't seem to be the issue, scaling does nothing, Full HD / WQHD seems the same when it comes to headaches
                                        • Blue light isn't the issue, flux does nothing/bluelight filter glasses do nothing
                                        • Eyes are okay, still asked for bluelight glasses, which do not help
                                        • Refresh rate: If any difference, I have the feeling that 144hz is making me motion sick, but there is no change in headache
                                        • Macbook Pro Bootcamp or Mac OSX show no difference
                                        • With a Hackintosh OSX (either Intel on or the 1070 on) the headaches remain
                                        • Dithering is the last big remaining thing to rule out, after that its down to a mixture of problems.

                                            verlaeufer Dithering is the last big remaining thing to rule out, after that its down to a mixture of problems.

                                            @JTL is working on a detector using a capture card...which if successful could then lead to an "off" switch. Until we can turn it off and verify it's off we are really just flailing. I hope the new monitor works for you...but my biggest stress has always been not being able to find out WHY something does or doesn't work so I can lock that in and reproduce it. I've had mostly the same experience as you in general and agree dithering is the last great "unknown".

                                              degen Fastest. Contrast 55. I don't use strobing but if you can tolerate it you will see added benefit. Having the contrast below 68 causes no overshoot when you have it set to fastest. Brightness I think mine is set to zero or close to. 0 - 20 seems fine for me. I don't use the blue filter.

                                                  dev