Windows 10 build 1809 problem

zlhr

After I updated my previously unproblematic Thinkpad X220 to this build it became unbearable for me to look at with pain behind the eyes beggining after just after 2 minutes of usage, just like with my MBP 13 2014.

To make matters worse problems persisted even as I downgraded it to 1803 or tried various Linux distros on it.

To verify it is the cause I installed it on my old AMD laptop and it was the same thing there. No OS / driver change helps here either.

Any ideas what might be happenning here?
Is persistent change like that even possible?

JTL

Oh god.

I have some ideas.

Did the Windows 10 update also upgrade GPU drivers and/or BIOS/VBIOS with it? it's a long shot but when I was doing my dithering research I managed to get a laptop into a persistent state where the screen was flashing with certain colors even after a restart.

zlhr

JTL Suprisingly no, Intel driver is still in the same 2016 version as before, same thing with AMD.
If drivers were the case, I think AMD laptop would still be okay
I tried installing 2015 drivers on X220, but it made no difference.
Only obvious change to the graphics is the appearance of "Windows HD Color settings" menu in Settings app which manages HDR capability my X220 is obviously not equipped with.

JTL

Keep me updated. This is concerning.

Gurm

If you completely reformat the hard drive and put on an older OS, is it still not working? I'm not talking about 1803, I'm talking about a known-good OS like Win7 or Win10/1511. I can't imagine that the VBIOS is updateable on the X220, that's an ancient machine (although I love mine also!) but I've heard tell about Intel fuckery of late.

zlhr

Gurm Downgrading to 1511 LTSB was thr first thing I tried, same story here.
I have no idea what to do with it other than installing latest insider build and hoping they will fix it at some point.
I'm using ditherig now and it looks like it's functioning - the color banding is more visible, however it does not ease the eyestrain. After experience with Macbook i thought dithering was my problem and now I'm not so sure.

hpst

zlhr I'm using ditherig now and it looks like it's functioning - the color banding is more visible, however it does not ease the eyestrain. After experience with Macbook i thought dithering was my problem and now I'm not so sure.

Well that is really depressing since that's my last hope personally. I have ruled out everything else on the radar both tech and health. If dithering removal doesn't solve it, and I have seen a few examples that make it a questionable solution where people claim no improvement, then I am screwed as I don't have the health to do anything but work on a computer. I'd happily go live on a beach with no tech but I cannot physically manage.

Gurm

zlhr What do you mean by "downgrading"? If you literally reformatted the machine, I just don't know what it could be. Are you using the newest Intel drivers? They are known bad - see the thread regarding them. It is INCREDIBLY unlikely that Windows 1809 somehow did something to the VBIOS on a random laptop.

zlhr

Gurm I've completely formatted it.
Yeah, I do not understand how it could work, but somehow the problem persists through OS installations.

Gurm

zlhr You must have kept something. Video drivers, perhaps? Or it's "in your head", as in you need a day away from the system to reset your eyes. I just don't believe that the X220 firmware could have been updated by Windows. Simply not possible. The BIOS flasher for that machine is a misery, requires a reboot in DOS, etc.

zlhr

Gurm No, even using Linux it is still present.
I've been exclusively using a borrowed laptop for last week and when I came back to my Thinkpad symptoms immidiately started again.

Gurm

zlhr The only thing I can imagine is that it literally BROKE the laptop. Tried to put it in some video mode that just blew it out. That laptop has an Intel 4xx series integrated graphics, which is on the cpu, and is pretty involatile. There's no VBIOS to update, AFAIK (JTL? Any idea?). Unless the i5/i7 chip has some registers which can be updated? I simply cannot fathom that something was permanently modified.

Cougarfalcon83

zlhr Sometimes symptoms persist even after downgrading. Its because the eyes are already irritated. Cut off any/all screen time for a day and then re-try. Worked for me - I gave it 1-2 days. Sorry its not scientific.

zlhr

Gurm That's my main theory - it did some slight damage to graphics chip that causes it to generate image in a way that is unpleasant to my eyes.
I will probably be buying a new laptop and try to completely avoid installing Windows 10 on it if possible.

JTL

Gurm I've already told you my current working theory.

JTL

Gurm I seem to recall reading the first build of Windows 10 (1507, doing the hard upgrade push) broke some laptop screens by overwriting the firmware. I'll try and dig up a article later.

Gurm

That would be very concerning. I realize it's a valid theory and I don't put it past MS, but that's extremely bad form. Updating firmware should not be something the OS can do. I kind of give it a pass on the Surface because MS wrote the firmware, but otherwise...

zlhr

Has anyone experienced the same problem?
Microsoft started rolling out this build last month, so some of you may already have it installed.
I've seen a few more laptops become unusable to me after 1809 update since then.
Still no idea what it does to turn devices bad permanently.

Gurm

zlhr The irony is that I find 1809 a vast improvement over previous builds. Still not voluntarily switching from 15xx though.

AgentX20

zlhr Microsoft started rolling out this build last month, so some of you may already have it installed.
I've seen a few more laptops become unusable to me after 1809 update since then.
Still no idea what it does to turn devices bad permanently.

Isn't this likely to be them including more recent GPU drivers from say Intel?

Gurm

AgentX20 probably. But drivers shouldn't be updating firmware. I mean, it's possible they can, but I've never once seen an nVidia or AMD/ATI driver update the VBIOS. Ever. You always have to download a crazy tool to do that. I have also never seen a stand-alone Intel driver that did so. Again, always a low-level command-prompt boot-time tool. So I really don't know what is happening here. I don't discount people's experiences, but I have no idea what mechanism could be at play here.