• Introduction

  • Blue light photophobia, eyestrain, muscle spasms, pain, twitching

Blair Sorry to hear about your struggle, and welcome to this board. In general, it's a super informative place, if overloaded with those desperate for solutions (of which I am one). Welcome to the club, even if it's not one you had hoped to join 🙂

There are a dizzying number of potential triggers for everyone, so it's tough to track down. The usual suggestions are to avoid monitors using PWM (pulse-width modulation - flickering the screen to reduce brightness instead of having a backlight that can actually be dimmed), have good background lighting, sufficient distance and contrast between monitor and wall behind it, night shift / night light / blue light glasses, etc. I'm sure you've already pursued all of that.

One thing worth trying that you may not have yet tried: if you use a PC, install Ditherig. It's freeware that shuts off temporal dithering, which is pixel flickering to create in-between colors not in the monitor's native palette. A number of folks here are suspicious that's what bugs the eyes, and that it's become more common in the past few years. That + the things mentioned above + the general health recommendations (vitamin D / avoiding nutrient deficiencies + exercise + sleep) seem to help me. I just got a new Macbook Pro for work that seems to be bugging me still - I think the dithering is a thing on it, too, though I love the color temp adjustment of its "true tone" screen. But, Ditherig + blue light glasses seem to work on my home PC that used to wreck me.

In any case, best of luck. Hopefully you find your silver bullet; unfortunately, many here seem to find there may not be any one fix-all, but the cocktail of general health practices and avoiding abrasive settings/hardware make life tolerable.

      Blair Welcome Blair.

      Have you tried the green glasses on your devices? There were people that say that it helped a little.

      I will try the Wahls Protocol. It's slighty different than the AIP paleo. More vegetables, and few other things. Well probably will not try the whole protocolat the beggining but parts of it, and see from there.

      I back up, what Gorfball said. People when arrive here included me, think the issue is more about blue light, because that's is most talked on internet and actually everywhere, but what might be the cause might be more related to flickering of the led's. Be either pwm, dithering, compositing. For some people blue block glasses/flux software might help a little because they remove some brightness. Especially in WLED backlight displays. So i think that flickering can be a cause, and also brightness sensitivity.

      Curiosly i also rembember that i had a strong flu, and it was after that my symptoms began. I dont know if it was just a concidence, or not.

      You can also investigate a e-ink device, either a reader like kindle or kobo or to connect to your pc like dasung or onyx boox, altough it's not cheap.

          Welcome, I almost started believing this is purely a male issue🙂

          If any optometrist hasnt checked you for eye teaming, vergence issues (convergence, divergence) and possible accomodation issues tied to this, try to find one that can. Ideal point of reference of their skill is if they perform cover/uncover test, maddox test, binocular depth perception and timed responsiveness of accomodation. Such thorough examination usually takes 1-2 hrs.
          Takes time to find someone who does it properly.
          Also try if using just one eye (you have to completely cover the other, no light in), improves the pain. If it does even only a bit, you may be onto something.

          New forms of lighting almost definately trigger hidden eye issues and disturb eye teaming (heterophoria), but noone seems to know yet and even my specialist was doubting it before we started a therapy and it started helping. Now he hopefully will be the one to write articles about it.

            martin

            Me too. Genders see things slightly different so I was starting to wonder if it was a male only problem. It does seem to be more males however (this could be selection bias though). Males do have a higher propensity for distinguishing fast moving objects and detail etc. which would explain if it's mostly males bothered by dithering (if this is actually a real source for our problems)

            I'd really like to see some stats regarding race, age, gender, eye colour etc.

            Blair

            You say your laptop started hurting you out of curiosity was the laptop you're currently using before and if it was are you aware if there was an update before it gave you issues? Same with the TV was it usable before and was there an update?

            I'm torn between being glad every time I see a new member on this site and saddened that there's more people being affected by these issues. Hopefully if there's enough of us we'll figure something out together and get companies to listen to us.

                  I am saddened every time I see a report like this.

                  I was always "picky" about displays... I was the guy who could see the difference between 85hz and 120hz and paid a LOT extra for the Matrox video card and the NEC Multisync monitor that could handle the higher refresh rates. I refused to get LCD panels at first because they were insanely sensitive to 60 cycle noise. But I could TOLERATE anything. For years.

                  And then, suddenly, in 2012... I couldn't. I didn't have any idea what was happening, and would end some days in my family room on the couch with my ex-wife (we were still married at the time) "watching" a TV show but unable to actually see ANYTHING on the screen. I essentially "listened" to much of Season 3 of Fringe as a result.

                  Once I figured out the problem, it was VERY slow going getting back to the point of being productive and healthy again.

                  The only GOOD news I have for you is that once you figure out your particular triggers, avoiding them will increase your tolerance. If I avoid bad displays, then when I have to see them I can tolerate them much better. When I have been overloaded, store lighting hurts my eyes. When I haven't, even LED lighting is "tolerable".

                    Gurm Well for me its the opposite. Avoidance worked when the issue was left untreated. Now with the ongoing treatment, controlled exposure actually increases my tolerance.

                      Hi Blair, I have same symptoms as you. I used supplements, long therm fasting, paleo, raw diet, now I'm almost full fruitarian after this I feel better, but for now there is no solution for us and I'm curious what will be in future. No good devices, laptops, I try to buy now a new car and all have LED Lights, tried few over weekends and at day it's ok but night = nightmare, I live in Poland and in store due EU restrictions you will buy only LED Bulbs, on the streets they making only LED, more cars with LED on streets, but we have to fight and maybe one day some will find solution.

                        Hi Blair,

                        Sorry to hear about your difficulties. At least you now know that you aren't alone. Many of us have been suffering since the 2011/2012 timeframe. I'm convinced that something about display technology changed around this time. I was thinking it was the advent of LED-backlit LCDs instead of CCFL-backlit (flourescent) LCDs, but that might just be specific to my case.

                        I first noticed there was an issue when I built a new gaming PC in December 2011 and got a new Samsung SyncMaster S24A850DW, which was a new PLS-style LED monitor. The display was gorgeous, but it instantly hurt my eyes when I looked at it. Even worse than just "it's too bright", the monitor seemed like some sort of mind-zapping ray of some sort. It was an odd sensation, but looking at it made me feel as if I had crammed for an exam reading books for an entire calendar day. I also had an odd ache behind the eyeballs.

                        Unfortunately many of us are still trying to figure out what the heck happened in this 2011/2012 time frame. My recommendation is to try to find old display monitors from like 2010 and older on Ebay or what not that are billed as just "LCD" rather than "LED". You can always connect your laptop to one of these external monitors and still use it if you find one that works. Maybe try to find someone you know that has a really old monitor that has served them well for almost a decade or more, and see if your eyes can tolerate it.

                        I use the Dell U2410 at work and at home at 0% brightness, "Warm" mode on the "Preset Mode" on the OSD (monitor settings), and I run f.lux software at 5000K all the time (similar to Nightshift on the iPhone). If I have the settings at default, I will eventually get that ache-behind-the-eyeballs, but it takes hours instead of minutes/seconds like modern LED-backlit monitors have.

                        For a phone, I use the iPhone 6S+ at low brightness and nightshift enabled all the time. I'm able to use it for as long as I need it for without too much difficulty.

                        So that would be my recommendation. Try to find display tech that's a decade or more older and see if that helps.

                          An e-ink display which emits no light and you can attach your laptop to would probably be a "last resort" suggestion, as others have said, however the refresh rate will not be good to watch movies and it's only black&white. For social media it should probably suffice.

                          What laptop are you currently using?

                          The fact that Quinine is helpful is very interesting. Out of curiosity have you been checked for lyme and thyroid-related conditions?

                            Gorfball Thank you for the kind words and the information.

                            That’s interesting about the flickering, I know fluorescent lights flicker and those are a nightmare for me. One thing I have noticed is that when I’m working on set, the production monitors they have which broadcast a live feed of the actors while they are shooting the scene, seem “different” to me. Although I’m never watching for an extended amount of time, I’m keenly aware that this type of monitor is much easier on my eyes. Thank god, because sometimes my job requires me to watch the monitor. I have looked into production monitors online, and forgive me but I’m not nearly as tech savvy as most people seem to be on this forum, and I’m too shy to ask someone from work. Do you know if those types of monitors (I googled production monitors and found several results), are compatible with Netflix/DVD/pc? I would assume so. I'm also unsure if it’s just not bothering my eyes as much because it's a live recording, rather than something that was previously recorded and edited.

                            But assuming it’s just the type of monitor and doesn’t matter whether it’s live or recorded, if I bought a production monitor, could I connect that to a PC? I’m thinking the monitors they have must be this flicker free type. If so, then maybe the flickering is my issue too!! It’s just overwhelming for me to try to find the right one, online browsing is difficult and painful for me. Price is a factor, but if I knew it was a screen I could actually look at, I’d be willing to fork over the dough if a more expensive monitor means I could use my computer for more than two minutes or actually watch a movie. Then I would just have to figure out a way to use my phone. Go back to the razor? Abc123.. Ha. As far as shopping, I guess it’s hats and sunglasses unless this miraculously disappears.

                            I will definitely download the app you are recommending in the meantime, and see if that helps. I have an HP laptop that’s a few years old. I have no idea the technical specifications. I do know that the windows operating system on it sucks.

                            Healthwise, I am very conscious, and get labs done as often as possible. My vitamin D is good. I have had high B12 for years and more recently my homocysteine & B6 is high. Have no idea why. Tried the proper supplements to lower homocysteine which did nothing. Thought it might be connected to the brain/eye issue as homocysteine is an amino acid which is toxic to the brain.

                            I also have TMJ issues and in my notebook, one of the theories I had is that this has something to do with the TMJ and my trigeminal nerve possibly being impinged.

                            Thanks in advance for any answers to these questions. I appreciate it so much. I am excited to see all the different responses and just wanted to add to the end of this post that because of the difficulty with the screen, I’m not able to respond to everybody tonight but will reply to each individual post as soon as I can. 🙂

                                tfouto I have tried the green glasses and didn’t find them much more helpful than anything else. My eyes do seem to prefer more of an orange/amber tint. The green was less aesthetically pleasing and I still experienced strain. I had high hopes as they are supposed to block LED, but yes, if it’s more an issue with flickering maybe that’s why the glasses only help so much.

                                I am familiar with Terry Wahls and admire her work. I think that’s a great diet and I implement it as well.

                                Curious indeed that you remember being sick before the symptoms started. Apparently (as per my Neurologist), there are quite a few others who started experiencing similar light sensitivity issues after being sick with some sort of virus.

                                I will look into and consider all of the suggestions you made. Thank you so much.

                                  martin Thank you. I have noticed my gender puts me in the minority here. Hopefully that female energy can contribute some beneficial yin to all of the yang. 😉

                                  This is all quite fascinating to me.. If I recall, both Neuro-opthamologists did a great deal of testing which did take an hour or so each time, however I'm going to look into this further by looking through my records as well as calling each office. If these tests haven't all been done, this is obviously a crucial step towards a diagnosis, which may have been overlooked. I would not be surprised.

                                  i'm glad you're getting some relief with the therapy. What kind of specialist is he? I'm located in LA so surely there are some decent specialists in the area.

                                  I agree, the new forms of lighting are causing a lot of issues for various reasons, and some of us are obviously... much more affected/sensitive to it... And that would be most righteous if your guy ended up writing about this.

                                      Blair Hi! I'm Mike from Hungary, a 30 years old Electric Engineer / SW developer. My ledstrain smyptoms started 7 years ago, when got a new laptop with LED screen. Several eye doctors said that nothing wrong with my eyes. Tried many flicker free LED monitors, f.lux...etc. none of them helped. I finally found a solution: I strongly recommend the old CCFL backlit monitors, like MagnuM said. After switching to a CCFL monitor 4 years ago, my very serious ledstrain symptoms disappeared. Monitor recommendation: HP ZR24W ( you may find used ones ).
                                      CCFL have a warmer white, less blue in the spectrum, and the PWM is much softer because of the slow on-off switching of the CCF lamp. Unfortunately this CCFL backlight is obsolete tech, most of modern/future LED monitors/phone screen triggers my symptoms again. 🙁

                                          Blair when I’m working on set, the production monitors they have which broadcast a live feed of the actors while they are shooting the scene, seem “different” to me.

                                          If you could find any information about these "production" monitors I'd be interested.

                                              I have had this issue with LEDs/CFLS for 10 years. Recently I have found SCT orange glasses that I ordered off Amazon to be the best defense against LEDs. I have to tape up the sides so no flicker gets into my eyes. I always have to wear a hat so light doesn't get me from the top down. Recently my work just changed my computer to Windows 10 and my eye strain issues have started again. Most likely due to dithering. Flicker free CCFL monitor if you can find over. E ink maybe flicker free OLED phone but again probably a crap shoot finding a phone that doesn't cause eye strain. I can use a Yotaphone 2 with no eye strain issues. Plasma TV works for me with no eye issues. One thing I learned recently is usually older plasma TVs have screen burn so they cause me eye strain. 2013 and 2012 are usually good years to find and they are cheap now.

                                              Blair my specialist is an optometrist whos doing a phd in biophysics and also working in research in optometry. Therefore hes really interested in weird cases. He does his business with his lab in a small town, as he is not about selling and commercial optometry, therefore he would not be competitive enough in larger cities. He teaches people in his own field that dont even believe my condition exists and would send me to see a psychologist instead. He also has the same issue as me, but with different manifestation. Ophtalmologits especially have no idea about this, or consider it irrelevant. My neurologist who diagnosed me with migraines and said theres nothing to be done also had no idea. Ive seen some very educated doctors at the top of their field.
                                              So if you dont find someone in LA, dont worry.
                                              The whole idea is to test for eye-teaming, which is disturbed by modern light, OS updates, display tech, certain apps even... why nobody knows, might be different in each case.

                                              I did more detailed desc. in this thread - https://ledstrain.org/d/369-my-possible-solution-treatment-and-progress-so-far/90

                                              Also the pain you feel may often be referrential, so if its above your eyelid it can still be from a completely different eye muscle.
                                              Let me know how it goes🙂

                                                Soreeyes

                                                I'm also curious about this and happy to contribute my stats. I'm Caucasian (German and Dutch descent), mid 30's, female, light blue eyes.

                                                I don't recall updating my pc. I have an hp laptop (not sure how to find out the exact model info) and it's running windows 8.1, which I find irritating to use and miss XP. I have installed several updates over the years but as far as I know, no correlation to the sudden light sensitivity. The tv I used to use (which is now sitting in my dad's garage somewhere) was some type of flatscreen Vizio, no updates applicable.

                                                I agree, it is comforting to know there are others struggling with this issue, as much as it sucks to live with, and I hope we can all find solutions to our individual cases in time.

                                                  Gurm

                                                  Interestingly, I wasn't as picky (nor as tech saavy to know what you're referencing above) but I did always prefer my brightness on the lowest setting. Not that it hurt my eyes or caused strain before that fateful day in 2015, but I just found extremely bright screens unnecessary and unappealing. So it seems there was a predisposition there. I used to spend hours in front of the computer with no issue.

                                                  Exactly the same for me, it went from fine to suddenly intolerable. I also used to sit on the couch with my ex and listen to movies with my eyes closed. It's now been so long since I've sat down and relaxed in front of a television, I don't even bother trying to listen to things. Most television screens bother me to the point that I can see the brightness with my eyes closed, and behind glasses.

                                                  It does seem that if I'm using my phone too much, my tolerance diminishes. If I've slept well, I can check my phone for a few minutes (with fl-41 glasses, brightness low, night shift on, and plenty of natural fill light in the room) As the day drags on, I find my eyes becoming more strained when checking the phone. I do occasionally wear TrueDark glasses at night if I need to use the phone after sundown. They supposedly block 100% of blue light and are meant to help with circadian rhythm. They do help, however I can't use them for things like shopping under florescent lights, nor does it seem to fix the strain issue. I tried wearing them at the airport recently, and it just makes everything too trippy.

                                                    tomek This is interesting to me that the fruitarian diet helped you. I'm willing to try anything at this point.

                                                    I'm also starting to shop for a new(er) car, and am aware of the LED dash lighting, as well as the screens in the center of the dash, which causes a huge issue for me, I first realized this when I had a rental car. It wasn't too bothersome during the day, but at night, nightmare indeed. I ended up wedging the rental car agreement in front of the screen so I could get to my destination. So I'll only be looking for an older car with no screens or offensive dash indicators.

                                                    It's a shame they are forcing the LED lighting on you in Poland, so sorry to hear this. I'm seeing much more of it in the US as well. Although my eyes do seem to tolerate overhead LED better than florescent (probably due to the flickering). Thankfully, I can light my home with soft lighting that appeals to me. In fact, it was one of the deciding factors when I moved recently- a newer apartment had been renovated with all LED fixtures. I just couldn't take the harsh, white brightness of them, and moved into an older house. It seems technology is literally hurting us, guys 🙁

                                                      MagnuM
                                                      Thank you SO MUCH for this information!! I want to see if older monitors are easier on my eyes. It makes a lot of sense that they would be. I have noticed certain tv screens seem brighter and more bothersome, and I'd be curious to find out which are backlit with LED as opposed to florescent. I know florescent store lighting causes me more eye muscle pain, twitching and migraines than LED lighting, but it may not be the same when it comes to screens. I know that my Samsung Galaxy seems to strain my eyes horribly, and I'll get a stabbing/aching pain while using it briefly (weirdly sometimes hours after, like a delayed reaction). This is similar to when I tried various projectors. It seemed somewhat tolerable with some fill light, but about an hour after watching a half hour of something (with glasses of course) I'd get a terrible stabbing pain in my eyeballs. I got the iphone SE a little over a year ago because the screen didn't seem to bother me as much as the android screen. I'm wondering if one uses LED and the other florescent?

                                                          dev