• OSWindows

  • Trouble with Windows 10, any solutions?

diop I doubt even the most sympathetic IT admin would downgrade one person to an earlier W10 revision.

Yeah, I tried to stay on the corporate Win 7 build as long as possible but eventually the company had to upgrade me due to security policy. My ADA request to remain on Windows 7 was rejected as being unreasonable due to lack of adherence to security policies.

For my home PC I don't have windows 10 and never will, that OS is so freaking beyond terrible I can't believe it. I am on Windows 7 until it becomes unsupported and I will then be moving to Linux when forced to. I have used various Linux builds with XFCE shell without issues.

      ensete What CPU and GPU are you using in your PC? Does Linux cause eye strain without the XFCE shell? I tried the latest version of ubuntu and mint, both caused eyestrain with a ryzen 5/RX550 build... however that might be due to the RX550. I now have an old HD8500 GPU which worked fine on windows 7 but causes strain on windows 10. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to try it with any linux distos.

        ensete I'm running 7 at home too but have had success with 8.1, might be worth a try at least for home use?

        Funny thing is I've never had a good time with Linux. I remember trying Ubuntu live in the late 00's and had (looking back) similar symptoms to now, so dithering of some sort has been a thing on *nix long before Windows I imagine.

        Since nouveau etc is open-source hopefully there's a solution for Linux soon. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

            diop

            Dithering doesn't seem to be my trigger, in that disabling it never offered any relief. Colors are my trigger on screens. Well, actually, I am beginning to suspect its not the color, but it's something that the monitor does differently when displaying certain colors.

            • Gurm replied to this.

                ensete I think the term we're looking for here is "subpixel rendering", which I've long suspected as a secondary trigger.

                    Gurm Possibly. I've turned bad displays into good displays by loading the correct ICC profile. I've also had good displays hurt me when displaying certain colors. But I've never gotten triggered by a color in real life, which leads me to believe it's something the monitor is doing in order to display that color that is causing the issue

                      Still waiting for admin access but one thing I notices, switching from a DVI connecter to an old HD15 connector seemed to help a little

                        ensete I didnt notice this article before - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering

                        it shows that when subpixel rendering is involved, the letters float and dont stay put. Putting too much workload on people with preexisting eye cond. like heterophoria.
                        Im gonna meet with one physicist soon and do tests in a lab with microscope and high speed camera on good and bad devices. He works in led development and is really interested in the topic. Its already been done here, but now I hope to replicate it more precisely.

                        I am also curious why my iphone 7 is ok now with reduced white point, but without it gives really bad pain. Hopefully the tests will show.

                        It also seems subpixel rendering is driven by graphic cards and not os -

                            6 months later

                            I found this link from some months ago where Windows 10 had a bug that caused all monitors and graphics card to have strong banding on gradients: https://www.eizoglobal.com/support/compatibility/software/problem_windows10_may_2019_update/index.html

                            I think this is further proof that they are doing something unnecessary with the graphics output on the OS level, independent of monitors and graphics cards.

                            • Gurm replied to this.
                            • AGI likes this.

                              KM Windows 10 builds after early 2016 have "composition layers" which allow manipulation of the display AFTER all the rendering is done. Basically a kind of bullshit software frame buffer. Awful stuff.

                              • diop replied to this.
                              • KM likes this.

                                  Gurm IIRC I read that some W10 apps are already being developed solely for 10bit use. 'Composition layers' are then used to dither down for use on 8bit displays.

                                  Is there any MS documentation on composition layers?

                                  • Gurm replied to this.

                                      diop you can find some in the development SDK documentation, but there's precious little on what it actually does, versus how to use them.

                                        I've just tryed to upgrade my notebook and my desktop pc from the 1809 to the 1909 and i can't use it! Someone else have found some problems with the last upgrade?

                                          Lauda89 some people find 1909 better some find it worse. Definitely different from 1809.

                                              Gurm and what about the 1903? because i need it for downloading games with the xbox pass! I can't with the 1809 🙁

                                              • Gurm replied to this.

                                                  Lauda89 it's a real problem. 1903 and 1909 seem pretty indistinguishable to me. But that's me.

                                                      Outside of a workplace y'know y'all don't have to use Win 10..

                                                      • diop replied to this.

                                                        Sunspark Outside of a workplace y'know y'all don't have to use Win 10..

                                                        That's true however not for much longer. Windows 7 updates stop next month and Windows 8.1 in January 2023.

                                                        I also think given that W10 has been out for nearly 5 years, it's the principle that by now we should be able to use this OS without issues. Maybe something behind the scenes changed in W10, this could explain why when testing my NUC a few months back I had problems.

                                                          Gurm I am really sad to be honest. I've always thought that was an hardware problem in my case (light emitted / pannel types) but now it's also a software problem. it's getting too complicated 🙁

                                                          • diop replied to this.

                                                              Lauda89 There definately are things in hardware to watch out for but thankfully these issues are now in the public eye, that's why we can buy PWM-free/low blue light displays.

                                                              In my own situation there have been so many 'upgrades' that have bricked my usuable devices into unusable, or certainly more uncomfortable than before.

                                                              I would say that it's not getting too complicated, if anything taking hardware out of the equation simplifies things. It also means that a software fix would solve our problems overnight. Therein lies the frustration, it can probably all be fixed with a few lines of code, but it is a walled garden.

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