I'm glad this is a current conversation. I started using a Xiaomi flicker free led desk lamp today, presumably using some form of dimming. The thing somehow gives me friggen migraines and nausea after minutes! I was so sure that a constant light source would be fine but it must be something to do with LED spectra as well. Funny thing is, the LED spectras i've seen online all look pretty smooth. Keen to see what you guys come up with over lighting.
Overhead lighting
I bet its not really flicker free, does it have a hefty laptop size power brick?
Have you seen the soundcard oscilloscope thread? the simplest photo diode iterations shown in that thread should be sufficient to test it. From my experience, testing lights for flicker is a lot easier than screens owing to the high lumen output.
a year later
What do people recommend as the safest bulbs/overhead lighting?
Even incandescents can bother me now if I’m hypersensitized. I really love my flicker-free A19 LEDs I bought this year from Waveform Lighting - those and some much older (now unavailable) Philips flicker-free LEDs are always comfortable, even over long time periods. Waveform seems to be slowly expanding their flicker-free options, with several A19 options and some T8 tubes that will be flicker-free with an appropriate ballast. They’re the only current flicker-free LED manufacturer that I know of in the US.
For incandescents, I find Edison bulbs to be more tolerable than normal incandescents. Of course, most Edison bulbs are pretty dim, but I recently purchased incandescent 60W Nalakuvara ST64 Edison bulbs to replace some standard incandescent 60W GE soft white A19s that had enough flicker to bother me a little when I was hypersensitized. The Nalakuvara bulbs are actually just about as bright as the GE bulbs and the color temperature is slightly warmer, but pretty close. They still have a small amount of flicker and I’m not sure how it would be if one used them for a long time period - these were just the best option I could find that work on an existing dimmer switch.
I find incandescent candelabra bulbs to be better than A19s for some reason.
For a “best” option, for me it’s the actually flicker-free LEDs hands down.
Problem is there are no "flicker-free" mains-driven LEDs. Yes, they call it "flicker-free", but are in fact outright lying, adjusting the meaning of the word so it fits their definition and their products' flicker specs. It is great you found something that works for you but those companies advertising "flicker-free" actually scam those people who search for true zero flicker. Which you can only get by using batteries.
[KM] The bulbs will be zero flicker if they are engineered to include a DC-DC controller circuit along with linear regulators in series with the LEDs to eliminate the mains 120/100 Hz fluctuation. There is a discussion of this topic in the IEEE 1789 flicker recommendations on page 12, section 5.1D, with the full requirements for zero flicker bulbs described at the end of the paragraph with citations.
Waveform isn’t lying about making flicker-free A19 LED bulbs. Note that their Edison-style LEDs do flicker (as they indicate themselves on the website), I assume because there isn’t space for the correct circuitry inside a bulb of that open style.
Other companies like Philips definitely are currently misleading the public by using “flicker-free” to only reference visible flicker. I’ve tried multiple current “flicker-free” LEDs from Philips and Sunco and they all flicker. Definitely marketing misrepresentation.
Battery power isn’t a guarantee of flicker-free light either, though. For example, I have a battery-powered LED book light that seems like it’s probably flicker-free at full brightness, but it flickers (invisibly) when dimmed. I assume PWM is the dimming mechanism even though it’s a battery-powered light.
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Thanks so best = a19s?
You’re welcome! If you want to try flicker-free LEDs, the A19 shape bulbs at Waveform that are the normal bulb style and labeled as “flicker-free” are the ones that are better than incandescents for me. I routinely use their 2700K 60W-equivalent bulbs, but they have other color options too. I saw that they recently added a 100W-equivalent option and a very low blue light bulb in their flicker-free line of products, which both sound interesting, but I haven’t tried them.
Does anyone know what has become of the "violet chip" LEDs that had a few articles some years ago? They were supposed to be sold soon, but I haven't seen them in shelves yet. I imagine they could potentially be much better for some of us. As apart from flicker, spectrum might be another factor.
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They are on market already, but have a same issue, MTBF (Mean time between failures), i bought and using russian brand Remez. Check http://sunlikelamp.com/ or may be you'll find something like this at your online marketplace.
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Any online light bulb retailer will sell them. You can get them on Amazon as well. Just google "rough service incandescent light bulbs" and you will find them. They are expensive (IIRC around $7 a bulb) but they are rated to last 10,000 hours, which at 12 hours use a day is over 2 years, and in my experience they do hit that lifespan. They also sell 20,000 hour bulbs as well, I have not personally tried them
You can also buy 40W and 60W chandelier bulbs with the standard size base, they are identical to the old standard A19 bulb in every way, except instead of being shaped like a round globe, it is shaped like an oblong candle flame shape.
I can still find 60W incandescent flood lights at my local Target, who knows how long that will last though. I would suggest when you find a bulb that works for you, stock up on a lifetime supply. Better to spend a few hundred now and be set for life than risk some overzealous administration outright banning all incandescent bulbs at some point in the future. They have been a (pointless) target of environmental zealots for year and since the vast majority of people just don't care because it doesn't effect them, it's something that could easily be slipped by and leave us high and dry.
One also can buy halogen bulbs with A19 bases (chandelier too) instead of rough service incandescents.
That is puzzling to me.. all halogens are, are incandescents just using a different gas and running the filament a little hotter (hence why they look slightly more white).
By all means keep using incandescent if it is available, I am just saying I don't see any physical reason why halogen wouldn't be drop-in compatible. There is no PWM or electronic circuits. It is literally straight voltage to the filament inside the quartz capsule.
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Sunspark That is puzzling to me.. all halogens are, are incandescents just using a different gas and running the filament a little hotter (hence why they look slightly more white).
By all means keep using incandescent if it is available, I am just saying I don't see any physical reason why halogen wouldn't be drop-in compatible. There is no PWM or electronic circuits. It is literally straight voltage to the filament inside the quartz capsule.
Halogens have a different color reproduction than incandescent. Incandescent is black body radiation (light coming directly off an energized source), halogen lights give off light by stimulated emission (passing an electric field through a gas that then gives off light).
I have observed incandescent and halogen both through a spectrometer and noted the color bands and saw the differences. It's not drastic but for some folks (like me) it's enough to trigger a symptomatic response. Beyond my LED issues I also suffer from symptoms triggered by color reproduction as well.
You are wrong with the statement that the halogen bulbs emit light from the gas.
Like regular incandescents, they emit light from the filament. They just burn hotter (thus a whiter colour temperature), and the filament lasts longer because the tungsten is redeposited on the filament.
The inert gas itself is not light-emitting and the colour reproduction is the same, just a different white point.
It looks like some countries have banned those incadescent bulbs?
Yes, unfortunately. For the ones that have, there are still some limited exceptions (e.g. appliance bulbs for ovens, etc.) but by and large, quite difficult. Even fluorescent strips are going to be phased out in the UK in 2023. UK will stop selling halogens in September 2021.
The LEDs that will be sold in the UK and EU are likely going to be higher quality than what is available in North America (mainly cheap trash).
Thankfully, Canada is not banning a technology, but rather power efficiency levels which is different than what some other countries have done, where they just banned the technology.
So, because of that incandescent halogens remain available in Canada. 3-way bulbs (I have a lamp that takes one, the brightest setting is 150w, the downside of them is when a filament burns out, you only have the other 2 brightness levels left), appliance, rough-service 130v bulbs, etc.
I looked up rough-service. It's the same as a regular bulb.. the difference is the voltage it is built for. 130v vs 120v.. so if you put a 130v bulb in a 120v fixture, it just produces fewer lumens, but if it was 75w to begin with, who cares, it'll still be 60 or higher in brightness.