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  • It was LED sensitivity and astigmatism for me

Hey everyone,

I've been lurking around this forum for the last year or so. My issues started back in 2016 when I started having issues being able to focus on monitors in general. From the low res, crap monitors at my office that were running windows 7, to my higher quality monitors at home that were using windows 10 and Ubuntu. No matter what kind of screen or OS, I found myself getting headaches by the end of the day. For the 1st time ever, I scheduled an eye appointment and walked away with yellow lensed, blue light blocking glasses (+.25/+.5) that did little to help the issue. Fortunately, I was able to work remote around that time and I decided to see if getting a better monitor (Asus MG24u) would help - it did.

Over the next few years, I just assumed I had an issue with PWM and really made it a point to only use my monitor (easy to do when working from home), or limit my exposures to lower-end monitors as much as possible. This worked out rather well until a little over a year ago, when I decided to change jobs. Forgetting how bad my issue was, and that might have gotten worse over the years, I decided to just power through the pain in that 1st week. That was a massive mistake. Even after buying a new monitor (BenQ PD2700) that was super easy on my eyes, and using it at work starting the very next week, my eyes were screwed up for the next few months. Constant pain when looking up, my right eye would fatigue a few hours into the work day, and the muscle running from left temple to the right corner of my left eye was always tense. That last part was just odd - if I rubbed that area, I could feel a small section at the top of my head tingle in the strangest way. Anyways, I ended up going to a new optometrist and once again got a prescriptions for basic reading glasses (-.25/-.5) with blue light filtering. Again, these new glasses really didn't help, but after a few months I mostly recovered from that week of stupidity, and for the most part would end most work days with a bit of eye strain and feeling way more fatigued that I should.

Fast forward to March of this year. I had already been working remote due as Covid was starting to become more of an issue. At this point, I noticed I had a lot less eye (and mental) fatigue at the end of the day - so obviously something at work was causing some strain, I assumed it was from being surround by crappy monitors with PWM. It was great, I was feeling amazing, until one weekend I decided to move my computer, resulting in me using a different cable (from HDMI to DisplayPort). At 1st I could tell somethimg was not right….I just wasn't sure what. After a weekend of gaming, my right eye was completely shot and the searing pain in my left eye (when looking up) returned. This freaked me out. It was one thing to be sensitive the PWM, but to have pain with this monitor had me thinking that I was completely screwed when it came to any screen. After trying many different configuration, I finally learned that going back to hdmi and setting RGB to limited caused the issue to stop.

That whole situation sent me into an obsessive frenzy trying to find any sort of relief or fix for this issue. I found myself reading through this entire forum for anything that might have even slightly helped others in the past. I'll skip the details of everything that I tried, but I finally found a bit of relief when it came to using botox. It definitely did not totally fix the problem, but it at least kept the tense muscle above my eye at from getting really bad. A unique side effect was that when I'd start having issues from LED strain, I could feel other muscles in my forehead getting pulled differently now that a few other muscles/areas were paralyzed. In a strange way, it almost felt like my the skin on my forehead would start to fall asleep (for lack of a better term) and almost acted as an indicator that something was triggering my eyes, and that I needed to stop doing whatever I was currently doing or else I was going to start getting some eye pains again.

After working with a neural ophthalmologist and passing every sort of eye exam, he asked of any of previous glasses every accounted for the small astigmatism I had in my right eye. Apparently the vast majority have it to some extremely mild degree and a lot of times it's not included in prescription as it really should not make any sort of a difference. Well, he made sure to add it this time. I'm not going to lie, I get the feeling if I did not have my weird forehead indicator from the botox, I would assumed they were not working. But after a few hour of wearing them, I realized I was not getting that sensation at all. Not being used to wearing glasses, after taking them off for a few hours, I could feel it return. Some of my eye pain was still present (like I said, botox didn't completely solve that) but given that the indicator wasn't going off, I decided to stick with the glass for a few more days. It's now been 10 days since getting the glasses and I've been 6 days without the pain I've become used to. Every now and then I can feel indicator flair up (I still have 2 months or so before the botox wears off) and some eye pain - in which I notice the my glasses are low enough for the LED light above my workstation to be hitting a pretty large area of my bare eye. But it subsides rather quickly upon readjusting my glasses.

I still have yet to really push things just yet. After the last few months, I want to give my eyes (and the surrounding muscles) time to recover. I really do want to see how well I do when it comes to deal with dithering (if that is the issue) and attempt to use my current monitor with full RGB while using the DisplayPort cable; but I'm going to wait a few weeks. That being said, I have helped a few coworkers, at their works stations, for a longer period of time (like all of an extra 5-10 minutes) than I usually would, and so far so good. I will say, I am still sensitive the LED's. Since using these glasses now, while they are not giving me headaches or strain, there is something about them that still feels uncomfortable (especially from cars and overhead lights), like they seem like they are brighter or more eye catching than ever. It's interesting, prior to getting these glasses, I feel like I was less sensitive to light overall. My office environment is rather dark, and I could go for a walking break on a bright Florida afternoon, on a very lightly colored walk way, and it still felt good on my eyes. With each day since using these glasses, I find myself thinking that it is entirely too bright out and I really need sunglasses.

I have an appointment in 2 weeks with an optometrist from the same doctor's office that helped me recently. I'm going to do another exam to make sure I have the correct prescription for astigmatism correction, but without the slight magnification for being farsighted. I can only hope I get the same result so brake lights are a little less painful over time. I'll make sure to update this thread with those results when the times comes, but I'll likely not even have those until a month from now.

I hope this is able to help others that have had similar issues. After reading through this forum, it's safe to say a lot of us suffer from same problem but very different causes, so I know this won't be a cure for most people. But I do want to thank every member of this community. Not feeling alone as I've struggled my way through all of this was by far the most important thing that helped me through this process. This post was already way longer than expected, so I left A LOT of stuff out, but I wanted to make sure I hit on the main items that others might be going through. Feel free to shoot me a message if you have any questions (other stuff I tried, symptoms, etc.). It may take me a day or so to respond, but I will always make it a point to do so.

    DanielK Thanks for your report. Could you please say what the degree of your astigmatism is?

    I had glasses made about 2 months ago with tinted lenses, blue filter and 0.5 astigmatism correction on the left eye. The very first instant I put the glasses on, I felt uncomfortable, like, a bit dizzy when I walked in the sun and looked far away. I used them for a day in the office and, for computer work, I did not experience dizziness but I ended up by the evening with anomalous pain in the eye with the astigmatism correction and burning sensation in both eyes. I waited for a few days and repeated the experiment. Same result. I went back to the optician and we agreed on making new lenses without prescription nor tint. Just a blue filter. Unfortunately, neither the new glasses seem to help, but at least they do not cause pain.
    I am curios if you needed time to adjust to your prescription. To be honest, in terms of visual clarity of my screen I couldn't really tell the difference with and without 0.5 astigmatism correction. Sadly, I could not test whether the tint provides some protection from the office overhead lighting, which I identified as the main trigger of my discomfort. The blue filter alone does not make a difference.

      AGI The prescription that worked for me has my astigmatism @ +.25 x 48. I really do not doubt if it wasn't for the sensation I would feel after getting botox, I would have also stopped using them after the first day. After the 1st few hours not only was I not feeling any relief from the usual eye pain, I was super annoyed by the minor "fishbowl" effect going on in my right eye, and even worse was that same eye was also feeling a totally different sort of strain than I had not ever felt before. In hindsight, that strain was just my eye finally being corrected after all this time. The worst of that lasted all of a few days…but I can still notice it (the feeling of my eye being corrected) now to some degree. Keep in mind, I've never worn glasses regularly in my life until now - so I get the feeling I'll be adjusting to these for a while - but I'll happily take a mild sensation in my right eye over searing pain :-). But yeah, it wasn't until the end of my second day wearing them I found myself rolling my eyes every 20 minutes and feeling a lot less of the pain I had come to expect. I want to say it was the 4th day wearing them in which I had my 1st full work day without searing eye pain.

      As for the glasses I got, they are nothing more than your standard pair from Visionworks. I decided to get larger lenses than I think I normally would (I've made the joke a few times about feeling like I look like the old guy from the movie UP), just to make sure I had good coverage all around my eyes. As for additions to the lenses I did get the Anti-reflective and the blue light filter.

        DanielK Interesting, thank you. A vision therapist, I had followed a seminar of years ago, told me the brain cannot distinguish between no astigmatism and 0.5 astigmatism. Also, another ophthalmologist I visited after making the glasses diagnosed 0.25. He did not want to comment on my prescription. I concluded by myself that the 0.5 correction was too strong and I stopped using the glasses. Now I have the doubt, that I should have insisted for a bit longer.
        By the way, what is "x 48"?
        Do you mind sharing why you are getting botox injections? I was proposed the same treatment last year because of eyelid twitching on the left eye. However, I am a bit reluctant about taking medicines and another specialist recommended to wait.
        Are you going to stop botox now that you think you found a "hardware" solution? Thanks.

          AGI By the way, what is "x 48"?

          As far as I know, astigmatism prescriptions always have two parameters:

          • the strength of the correction, 0.5 in this case
          • the angle of the correction, 48 degrees, I presume

          Astigmatism means that your eye is slightly squished at a specific angle, and thus the correction must be applied to compensate for that specific angle, and not the entire eye. And there is some math involved to combine both astigmatism and far/near correction, and in Europe they also use equivalent inversion to adjust the prescription to optometric standard because the eyeglass lenses are usually produced from "blanks" that can be processed only one way. Articles about Sturm's interval explain it best.

          I have very low vision since birth and I've been having trouble receiving comfortable prescription glasses from my doctors. So I learned the basic math behind optometry and ordered an optometric lens kit from China (cost about 100$) and did lots of experiments.
          After that, I visited my doctor with my results and asked to validate them and prescribe me something that would work the same way I found the most comfortable for me. And so she did, and her prescription values turned out to match mine pretty closely. Now I have very comfortable distance glasses that do not cause any eyestrain nor make me feel wobbly (as all my older glasses did).

          So, the takeaway of my story was that vision can be very subjective and sometimes the doctor cannot prescribe you the glasses that you feel most comfortable with - they often tend to overshoot. But it's not their fault because, again, vision is very much a subjective thing. You can't just examine a person with an autorefractor and prescribe the resulting correction immediately - you have to test in on the patient and very often to reduce it a bit. Sometimes what the patient feels in the doctor's office will differ a lot from what they feel when using the glasses at home with their computer or when walking and driving. It gets especially tricky with very low vision patients with retina defects.

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            AGI Progmars is correct about it being the strength and correction.

            I can definitely understand  how the eye cannot notice a difference of .5 astigmatism or less, so therefore it is never corrected.  But I can also see how having light hit one eye in just a slightly different way could cause issues that might not exactly be "seen" but can certainly be felt.  I really cannot blame any of the doctors for not prescribing for that previously - and for all I know, I might be the one freak occurrence where this was the solution.  I really hope that is not the case - I'm really hoping that if there is anything I can give back to anyone suffering from this as we have, is that they know this could be an option to explore.

             
            As for the Botox; part of what I left out in the long post above was that at one point I did visit a neurologist.  My wife suffers from migraines, so I decided to get a referral and visit her doctor as he was super helpful in getting her triggers figured out.  When I was explaining to him the tense muscle I was getting above my left eye, he mentioned it seemed very similar to what happens to some migraine sufferers and that Botox has been helpful in relaxing that area.  The only problem was that insurance would not pay for it unless I took an MRI (and have it show no related issues), and then attempt medication and show that it was also not giving any sort of relief.  I went ahead with the MRI, but the medication being offered was some pretty hardcore stuff.  So I decided to just reach out to a beauty spa that offered Botox (even mentioned them using them for migraines) and just pay for it out of pocket.  In a few months when it wears off, if everything is still working great with using only the glasses, I'll stop going.  However, if I notice things are starting to get painful again, I'll happily go back for another round.  Besides, I'm approaching 40 and work in an office filled mostly with people in their uppers 20's - having an excuse to get botox to fix my eye pains, while reducing the lines on my forehead, is a pretty nice option.

              progmars So I learned the basic math behind optometry and ordered an optometric lens kit from China (cost about 100$) and did lots of experiments.

              Thanks on your detailed explanations. Can you briefly describe which kind of experiments you carried out? That is quite impressive.

              progmars they often tend to overshoot.

              My question is, why did the optician go immediately for the 0.5 correction, if 0.25 steps are possible?

              DanielK When I was explaining to him the tense muscle I was getting above my left eye, he mentioned it seemed very similar to what happens to some migraine sufferers and that Botox has been helpful in relaxing that area.

              Are you too mainly affected on the left side? Is such little astigmatism the reason for the build up of all that stress? Do you know what they expected to find by MRI? I too took one. In my case, they were after the potential pinching of a nerve. However, the MRI was negative, and there was no difference between the left and the right side of my brain/face.
              How about light sensitivity, besides displays? Other forum members may be tired of reading this, but, since we have not crossed out paths earlier, for the past two years my main trigger has been lighting. For long I thought it were Mac computers I had never worked with in the past. Finally, I took both my MacBook Air and iMac home during the lockdown and they looked/felt a different hardware than in the office. At work, I quickly become very fatigued under some supposed-to-be eye-relaxing modern, low temperature fluorescent lighting and there are a few types of LEDs I can't stand at all, not even for minutes. Luckily, those can be turned off as my colleagues in the same line of cubicles prefer them off too, although they do not have my horrible symptoms.

                AGI It is my right eye that has astigmatism and that starts to feel fatigued after exposure to LED's or other triggers (Dithering, PWM, or whatever is the actual cause). That being said, it is my left eye that will eventually give me a searing pain when look up with my eyes - it's also the area above the left eye then ends up pulling tight. Not sure why this is, but I'd guess it'd be from my left eye trying way too hard compensate for whatever is going on with the right one.

                My MRI results came back negative, in regards to this issue, thankfully. Something was found that created a bit of a health scare, but ended up being a very small scar that I was likely born with. According to the neurologist, given the location, this would have absolutely no impact on my vision and should not cause any problems in anyway.

                My sensitivity to light has always been impacted by how badly I've screwed up my eyes prior. For example, a year ago as well as a few months ago when thing got really bad, I noticed a few things in the time I was recovering. 1.) Looking at colored LED lights would cause my right eye to fatigue within a minute. My keyboard, for example, lights up RGB with each keystroke, and I've had to disable it within a few minutes as I could feel my right eye start to get a sensation. That being said, I have LEDs in my home office to illuminate the space, but they both have frosted glass over them and have not caused an issue 2.) I become very sensitive to the color RED from lights (not just LEDs). So brake lights are not fun for me to be stuck behind - I also changed out the clock next to my bed as the LCD was red and would bother my eye as soon as I'd wake up. But even things like firing up Netflix, seeing the bright red N was brutal. But this is not the same pain that I get from LED's - feels almost like I'm looking at something that is painfully bright, even though I know it's not. But to be clear, when my eyes have recovered (in the past at least), red lights don't bother me, and LED lights are hardly even close to painful. Which is why currently without my glasses at work, I can feel that searing pain. Prior to getting my eyes all screwed up, I'd just end the day with a fatigued eye or maybe a little pain.

                Currently reds still bother me, but it's getting a lot better. It's only when they are rather bright, once again like from brake lights, that I can feel a strange sensation - not exactly pain, almost just like my eyes saying they really don't like this. As I mentioned in my 1st post, I'm still avoiding colored LEDs light (like the nearly instant trigger from my keyboard) as much as possible for another week or 2. I normally love to push things - but I do want to wait until I'm feeling nearly 100% before I start seeing the limits of these glasses vs possible triggers

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                  DanielK Thanks. How about fluorescent lights?
                  Do not you think your adversity to some colors is neurological rather than strictly visual?
                  I think more and more my issue is neurological. Not that thinking so helps. As tired I am of visiting eye doctors and optometrists who have no clue, I would not know where to go to treat a potential neurological problem. My brain MRI was negative. What could I try next?
                  As soon as I relocate, I want to try visual therapy, although I know I can get into never-ending cures. I have been doing acupuncture for 1,5 years and honestly I do not know why I keep going. I guess it is called despair.

                    Have you tried increasing the zoom in your browser? I believe for me it's helpful using a "default zoom" extension for Firefox that sets the default zoom to what I specify so that the characters are bigger, but I prefer going without glasses whenever possible so it may be different for you.

                    I also believe swimming helps the body quite a lot because the water seems to have a grounding effect on the body's electrical system (refer to "The Body Electric" for that subject). Better if you can swim in non or minimally chlorinated water. Just being in the water is beneficial. We have a lake that is helping me.

                    Also of note while we're on such matters is that abstaining from orgasm allows the body to charge itself much better and work better on the whole. Just putting that out there because lifestyle choices do make a difference. If you are sensitive to certain screens/software, there's no reason why you wouldn't be sensitive to other lifestyle factors that would in turn make you more sensitive to those problematic screens or software. In other words, it's useful to consider lifestyle factors that can make you more resilient against stressors and triggers.

                    Also consider a supplement like Relora:

                    These results indicate that daily supplementation with a combination of Magnolia bark extract and Phellodendron bark extract (Relora®) reduces cortisol exposure and perceived daily stress, while improving a variety of mood state parameters, including lower fatigue and higher vigor.

                    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23924268/

                      AGI Fluorescent have never been an issue for me. I know some people that have problems with them (can see the flickering where most of us don't) but still can use the crappiest of monitors all day long, without an issue...which would leave me riving in pain.

                      I pretty much assumed my issue was neurological as well - because nothing else made much sense. Until recently I tried the usual glasses, eating way healthier & upping my vitamins (stuck with it for a solid 6 weeks just to make sure...its another long story not in my post), and everything else that was readily available; and I assumed it must have been my brain. Of course, I then get an MRI showing nothing that could cause an issue like this; so I then just assumed (with absolutely nothing to base it on) it was a problem with my optical nerves. Like I said, if it wasn't for the events leading up to me trying the properly prescribed glasses I got, there is a good chance I would have never given them a second thought after the 1st few hours. But in the end, it all really makes sense: I can look at and read words on paper, metal, plastic, glass and everything else that is not a screen without a problem, no matter how dark or how bright. It's only when looking at a screen, in which I'm staring at a light source, do I have a problem. Then I come to find out, that with the small astigmatism I have, light and other visual sensory's hit one eye in just the slightest different way where I don't even notice it, until it's been making my eyes counteract each other for quite a bit of time. Now, take that issue and combine it with a job that has me looking at a screen 9 hours day, and hobbies and interests that also involve me staring at a screen. Eventually, that is going to cause some problems. Again, I do not know if it's an issue with flicker, dithering, color wavelength, color temperature, or whatever else, but I can say it's due to whatever it is interacting with one eye just a little differently than the other.

                      AGI I have been doing acupuncture for 1,5 years and honestly I do not know why I keep going. I guess it is called despair

                      Let me stop you right there. You're on this forum for the same reasons as myself; I just happened to get lucky. I'm with you every step of the way; Keep on fighting, and share your journey and results to the community as you find what works best for you. I have no doubts this site will see a higher flow of people passing through as time goes on. I just want everyone who is going through something similar to know all the different options they can seek out.

                      K-Moss Thanks for the heads up on the zoom extension. For my eyes, I've found using a 4K monitor, scaled to 200% is extremely easy to look at. It's a shame they really don't make them in anything less than 27 inches these days. My Asus is all of 24 inches, and it's like looking at an iPad - you seriously cannot see any pixels at all. Also, I totally agree with you when it comes to swimming or any sort of exercise. It allows you to blow off all that additional stress that really can sit on all of your many tensed up muscles. Though, I'm not sure if I can get on board with that last option...if I had to choose eye pain or abstaining......I mean, I had already gone this many years with eye pain....

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                        DanielK I can look at and read words on paper, metal, plastic, glass and everything else that is not a screen without a problem, no matter how dark or how bright. It's only when looking at a screen, in which I'm staring at a light source, do I have a problem. Then I come to find out, that with the small astigmatism I have, light and other visual sensory's hit one eye in just the slightest different way where I don't even notice it, until it's been making my eyes counteract each other for quite a bit of time.

                        I see. I will look into astigmatism correction again in a short time. I need to digest the fact that, within a month, I wasted the equivalent of USD 570 in two pairs of lenses and a frame which I am not using. Additionally, after the lens thing, I went to a different specialist for a second opinion and I was prescribed eye drops to cure dry eyes. My condition slowly got worse day by day until after a couple of weeks I could not keep my eyes open. I went back to the ophthalmologist and I was told to continue the dry eye cure while taking also steroids to soothe the inflammation. I tried for a couple of days, but it was impossible so I gave up with everything. The inflammation is now gone after suspending the treatment. In the past, I was always told I do not have dry eyes. It sounds like eye medicine is far from being an exact science. Certainly, the language barrier where I live is not helping, but I do not know whom to trust anymore.

                        Back to astigmatism, my skepticism comes from the fact that, if I take my laptop home, I feel much better. Before this job, I had two good years without issues. Before that job, I had three bad years. I could use my company's laptop only connected to a monitor with a discomfort of, say, 7/10. I could not use the laptop by itself. It would knock me down for days. But I could use my private old laptop for 16 hours a day no problem. Also, the same type of monitor, which I rated 7/10 in terms of discomfort, would give me zero issues attached to a different computer in a room lit in a different way. I guess you get my point. There are too many illogical observations, which I tend to explain with there being a neurological condition. That is also what the orthoptist I visited early this year suggested. However, neurological problem sounds to me like the generic "stress" people use to address issues they cannot explain.

                        K-Moss I also believe swimming helps the body quite a lot because the water seems to have a grounding effect on the body's electrical system (refer to "The Body Electric" for that subject). Better if you can swim in non or minimally chlorinated water. Just being in the water is beneficial. We have a lake that is helping me.

                        I swim kilometers a week and recently, due to the lockdown, I swim in the sea rather than in the pool. Sport helps in general, but I have not improved my eye condition.

                        Regarding acupuncture, it's not all the same. For best results, you should see a genuine TCM practitioner who uses large needles and electrical currents. The disposable needles that are most common are too small. Autoclaving the reusable needles makes them perfectly safe. The appointments shouldn't be pleasurable while you are getting them because the needles are very large and if you move the slightest bit the electrical current with zap you. However, this genuine TCM acupuncture really is useful and beneficial.

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                          K-Moss The therapist uses disposable needles and, from time to time, electrical current. The only clear effect is that I relax a lot during the treatment, at the point that I fall asleep. Which is very welcome since, without realizing, I have made my sleep habits a real mess over two decades. I currently sleep 3-4 hours a night and not even in a row.

                            AGI Yes, I used to see a very senior TCM doctor from China who allowed me to experience real Chinese acupuncture (and Chinese medicine). I suspect most acupuncture these days is much tamer. No way could I sleep with those big needles in me and the currents going through them. Instead, the appointments were challenging, and frankly a kind of torture. However, I found them more useful and beneficial than any massage.

                            On the topic of massages, I do enjoy genuine Thai yoga massages on a floor with a vigorous therapist from Thailand. Not as beneficial as real acupuncture in my experience, but much more enjoyable even though the vigorous techniques can be intense.

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                            DanielK Hi there!

                            This post is somewhat relevant to me because I was a premature birth, and as a result was born with slightly oval shaped eyes, basically born with astigmatism and during infancy developed strabismus (alternating esotropia) which was not correctable with multiple surgeries.

                            My prescription is rather high and I've had to wear glasses (above -10 in both eyes and correction for astigmatism) since around the age of 3.

                            So my astigmatism hasn't just shown up, and from checking my glasses prescriptions (I have them as far back as the late 90's), my prescription and astigmatism correction have remained stable during this time, so there's been no biological change in the way I see, as has been verified by frequent trips to doctors during my childhood to monitor my squint, perform cross-cover tests etc.

                            In my case, I first noticed real issues when trying my first iMac about 5 years ago, and have since learned that they use temporal dithering by default to keep the colours 'accurate'.

                            My question to you is, at what point did you notice the symptoms? In other words, is there a setup that you still own from 10 years or so ago that is comfortable? Is there an old games console/desktop PC/monitor that doesn't cause symptoms at all?

                            I'm not suggesting that people don't have photophobia or some type of sensitivity, however I still feel that any external agent that is used in order to allow someone to simply stare into a modern device isn't the ideal solution. Exercise is recommended anyway, however I have been fit, and rather unfit in the last 5 or so years, but it doesn't matter. A bad device is a bad device. We need to understand why certain devices are causing issues and not putting energy into bandaids or even hard drugs, to cope with the technology.

                            I have ruled out monitors completely as a 'point of failure' as when I connect 'good' devices there are no symptoms whatsoever. Saying this, I still have to research monitors and pick PWM-Free (but this isn't necessarily about PWM sensitivity, it's just common sense. Why would anybody pick a flickering monitor over a non-flickering one regardless if it affected them?). There is also FRC to consider which is probably present on a lot of monitors.

                            Again, sounding like a broken record, until we have the hard data and know 100% that we can transform any computer to produce a clean video output, with dithering control on drivers and knowing how to render the desktop environment comfortably, there isn't much point focusing on trying to find the right monitor, the right light source, etc. I'm not saying those things aren't important factors, but you can't rule out monitors as the issue unless you also rule out the video source as the issue.

                              diop Thanks for the response. Yeah, I really didn't want it to come across that I found a cure all for everyone. Just wanted get what worked for me out there, so anyone that has not had their eyes checked, or have but it was assumed they didn't have astigmatism because theirs was really minor, that it may be worth looking into. I cannot even imagine how many people out there share the same sort of pain, but from drastically different triggers.

                              When things started getting really bad a few months ago, I actually went back through all my old emails, IMs, purchases, etc. to look for anything associated with eye strain, just to get a better sense of when this all actually started. In my original post, I said 2016, and that was when I purchased my 1st monitor that was really easy on my eyes. However, I can safely say the issues really stared around early/mid 2015, as that's when I added vision to my insurance. I had never needed it before, but the fact that I did so tells me that my eyes were bothering me at least a few months prior. The Asus MG24u is the monitor that I purchased then and it's been the easiest on my eyes since that time. It's the one I took to my new job on the second week, after screwing up my eyes, and I would buy a used one in a second if I ever saw one online. I have also been using the BenQ PD2700 for the last year, and it's not been too bad. It's very bright, so I always have it near it’s lowest setting - it's also the one that I learned I cannot use Full RGB or even a displayport cables with. More recently, I purchased an Asus VG289 - much like the BenQ, I have to keep the brightness low and not use full RGB or DisplayPort, but it's quite usable otherwise. TV's, gaming systems, iPads, iPhones do not appear to be an issue for me as I've never felt the searing pain after prolong use of them.

                              I do have a 15" 2019 Macbook pro for work and a 13" 2019 Macbook pro at home for personal use. Both only ever seem to give me any sort of pain if my eyes are already in a bad state - but that's only if I really screwed them up like a did a few months ago. What is interesting is that I can use USB-C to Displayport cable from either one of those laptops to either one of my newer monitors, and I do not get the strain I get when using the Displayport from my graphics card (GTX970 - I'm thinking it does something differently when using that rather that hdmi) on my PC. I never had a chance to try the displayport on my MG24u monitor, as it remains at work. I would be interested in seeing the results as I know that one is a true 8 bit panel, while the other 2 are 8bit + FRC.

                              diop I'm not suggesting that people don't have photophobia or some type of sensitivity, however I still feel that any external agent that is used in order to allow someone to simply stare into a modern device isn't the ideal solution.

                              Not about to argue with you on that one. All of my strain comes from unnatural light, be it most monitors or some LEDs. I mentioned in a previous post having an issue with some red lights that are not just LED's - but keep in mind that is only after greatly stressing out my eyes, typically from a crappy monitor. While my issues come from mainly LEDs, I'm more comfortable saying its from something the LED's are doing (flickering) rather than saying it's from the light itself.

                              diop until we have the hard data and know 100% that we can transform any computer to produce a clean video output, with dithering control on drivers and knowing how to render the desktop environment comfortably, there isn't much point focusing on trying to find the right monitor, the right light source, etc.

                              100% disagree with that. Trying to find what works for each of us individually is what helps us narrow down a possible root cause - and you must keep in mind that we are all not suffering from the exact same thing. You can say there is no point in focusing on trying to find the right monitor, but I can tell you that I cannot use a monitor that uses PWM as I will end up with a crushing headache. On that same note, I cannot use a TN monitor as they looked extremely washed out and also result in eye pains....and even then, if I'm using flicker-free, IPS (tends to work best for me) monitor that has a lot of visible pixels (like a larger 1080p monitor) I'm also going to have pains as my eyes end up wanting to focus on the pixels differently (that was my original problem). So, for quality of life in general, it is EXTREMELY important for anyone to find the monitor or light source that works for them. Sure, other factors can come into play and disrupt what works for us, like me suddenly finding out that full RGB or even using a different kind of cable can cause a problem, but learning to understand these new obstacles allows us to better explore the depths of our issue.

                              I've got a lot of use out of this site recently when it came to finding a new monitors. They really go deep with all the specs, in a zero frills kind of way. Super useful if you know some of your triggers: https://www.displayspecifications.com/en

                              a year later

                              I too went to a BVD specialist yesterday. (well, a strabologist to be exact. I think that's the same.)

                              They said:

                              • They don't know why my eyes hurt from screen use

                              • I don't have any binocular vision disorder (my stereo vision is functioning normally) so I don't need prism glasses

                              • I do have some astigmatism in my eyes, but no matter what I said, they wouldn't agree to write me a prescription that accounts for this astigmatism.

                              • My astigmatism strength is "in the magnitude of the normal physiological astigmatism" and my astigmatism axis - "almost so"

                              • They tried putting an astigmatism test-lens on my eye and I think I said I see slightly blurrier with it.

                                Printout from the test machine:

                              What do you guys think? I could use advice.

                              Particularly: I think I should find a doctor who does prescribe me astigmatism lenses, so I can wear them for some weeks and see if I just need getting used to them.

                                logixoul Is it obligatory in your country to have a prescription from a doctor? If not, you can order glasses based on the printout.

                                  Dominic I could, but I suppose I shouldn't wear glasses that have the exact same astigmatism value like in the printout.

                                  For example:

                                  You know how usually people with e.g. -3.00 diopters (in their eyes) should wear slightly weaker diopters (e.g. -2.50)? I suppose the same logic applies to astigmatism strength. I think only a doctor can tell me the exact best astigmatism correction for me.

                                  dev