si_edgey do you find that adding the Nvidia card makes a difference? I'm confused on the relationship between integrated graphics and peripheral graphics cards. I've always thought that you're always using one or the other, but reading through several different threads here, I'm starting to gather that they work in conjuction with eachother...?

I have a desktop computer that has Intel HD 630 integrated graphics that's always been "OK" for me, it's been mostly comfortable but not fantastic. Lately, it's been less comfortable and harder to focus on and I notice that the drivers were updated in 11-2020. So I'll probably roll back to the 2016 drivers and see if that makes a difference.

But, I think the difference between HD and UHD is in the hardware? I believe they are different GPUs/chipsets. I can't just try the UHD 630 drivers if I have the HD 630 hardware, right?

I've considered adding a graphics card (Nvidia 6xx seem to be most universally safe) thinking it would completely bypass the integrated graphics. But, am I wrong? Will the Intel IG still play a role?

      jrhack Funnily enough, I posted about this exact topic in this big thread I started.

      If you're on a desktop machine and you monitor is connected directly to a discrete GPU (ie an Nvidia graphics card like the 6xx you mention) then the Intel UHD graphics on the processor will by bypassed entirely. Only if you were to connect to the HDMI output of your motherboard would the Intel graphics come into play.

      The confusion comes with laptop GPUs. On a laptop with an integrated GPU + discrete GPU, if additional horsepower is needed (for games / video editing etc) then the discrete GPU kicks into gear. However, every frame that the dGPU renders is passed to the integrated GPU to actually display it on the screen. So the iGPU is the one that has to work for you.

      So in your case adding an Nvidia graphics card (and connecting directly to it on the back of your computer) would bypass the UHD graphics. More often than not you can then disable the integrated graphics in the BIOS if you're not using them, for peace of mind.

        My apologies if this is the wrong place to discuss this. There are so many threads with a lot of overlapping discussion that I'm finding it challenging to know exactly where to post questions. If you prefer having this discussion on another thread, I'm more than happy to jump over.

        Thanks for that insight, that leaves me with a great deal of hope for this desktop by trying different graphics cards. BUT, now I'm confused on how Windows fits into the mix. I see a lot of talk on different versions of Windows 10 and how some work better than others. Does that come into play only with integrated graphics or also with discrete cards. My thinking has been that with an old card (e.g. Nvidia 6xx), the hardware just wouldn't support some of the weird new things Windows might be doing in their display layer. But the more I read around on this site, the more it seems that both Windows and Graphics manufacturers can introduce problems for us just in the OS and drivers.

        So, while installing an old Nvidia card seems like a logical first step in pursuing a comfortable solution, is just the card enough to ensure comfort or do I also need to pay attention to my version of Windows and the drivers I install for that card?

          jrhack For myself, both. Although the small exception is a new(er) Intel graphics adapter, UHD 630, which can run on an older driver only released by Intel to OEMs, and that driver runs on old Windows versions which are comfortable for me. Newer Windows builds are uncomfortable for me no matter the hardware and driver. Also newer Nvidia cards which always dither are uncomfortable for me on any OS and driver combination.

          As an example, there is no way I can make old Nvidia cards or otherwise usable Intel adapters comfortable on post 1511 Windows 10 builds. New Windows 10 just doesn’t work for me.

          I am relying completely on outdated software and hardware to have a working setup.

              degen Thanks degen, can you give an example of old drivers you are using on UHD 630 graphics? Are they just older versions of UHD 630 or something else?

                  degen Also newer Nvidia cards which always dither are uncomfortable for me on any OS and driver combination.

                  Have you tried any G-sync monitors (native or Ultimate) with Nvidia cards?

                      MPaz could anyone identify the "safest" one on that list? volunteering to try with my Gsync laptop

                      • MPaz replied to this.

                          degen Also - does that include 2004 and 20H2 versions that many here are finding comfortable? Those also don't work for you? Because I've been kind of excited to find a recent version of Windows 10 that works.

                              Quad43 Great! Does the laptop triggers you to feel the symptoms or is it "safe"? What's the model?

                              From what I've researched about the monitors during the last few days:

                              • It must be either "G-sync Ultimate" or "G-sync", as "G-sync compatible" monitors don't have the integrated processor that we are curious about. Which in theory might not use dithering when connected to Nvidia GPU. You can read more about it in this thread - @highradio came up with this idea.
                              • Avoid NanoIPS (some DELLs) as many people said that it causes them the symptoms.
                              • Simply check the model on Ledstrain and Google - something like "[model] eyestrain", just to make sure that others aren't getting the symptoms.
                              • Avoid 6 bits + FRC. I suggest choosing 8 bits or 8 bits + FRC, or 10 bits (if such exists). If it's 8 bits + FRC, make sure that on your first try you disable the FRC, so just choose 8 BPC in Nvidia Control Panel and not 10 BPC.
                                You can use: https://www.displayspecifications.com

                                  MPaz It's "ok". Razer Blade Pro 17. Someone else here reported it was perfect with the nvidia 2070, I got the 2080 and it's ok but definitely get a little ache in the temples - which is very different what I get with Intel-based machines (above the eyes)

                                  Any ideas which monitor model suits your above reqs?

                                    It really depends on the budget. I suggest you to go over the list and check each. I'd also go with VA / IPS.
                                    I will get my ASUS ROG Swift PG259QN in a couple of weeks, so you might try something else.

                                    P.S. have you disabled your integrated GPU? There might be an option somewhere in the settings or in the BIOS as your laptop in theory shouldn't cause the symptoms, unless it still uses Intel GPU at some point.

                                      jrhack 2004 and 20H2 are not comfortable for me.

                                        jrhack

                                        22.20.16.4836

                                        Only Intel GPU driver version for UHD 630 adapter (looks like there is a version of it for UHD 620 as well) that works on old pre Anniversary edition Windows 10 builds (I use Windows 10 2015 LTSB exclusively on all my machines, except for my desktop which I am experimenting dual-booting with Linux Mint 20.1. I also have 2015 LTSB on my Dell XPS 15 7590s, which was the last XPS 15 to support old Windows builds with some tweaking).

                                        Yes the driver version is older, from 2017. But if I boot this same driver up on new Windows builds it is painful.

                                            More recently than when I started this thread I have been running my Nvidia Quadro K4000 on my desktop instead of the Intel GPU or GTX 650 Ti Boost. I haven't done enough A/B testing comparing to the other adapters but I've been tolerating it. I've switched to the viewpoint that with my graphics adapters in a pretty good place, good panels, tolerable OS, that most of my strain is coming from software sources now. Web browers which is well known now and others which were mentioned recently like Office and pdf readers.

                                            Was accessing the website versions of Office on Pale Moon last night and that seemed more tolerable than the desktop application. Pale Moon is still my most comfortable browser (sometimes I think Waterfox Classic is OK, but I'm not sure. Pale Moon is better. Basilisk is another one I've been meaning to try).

                                              degen So do you figure it must be the WDDM layer that hurts in newer builds of Windows?

                                                  jrhack Might be part of it, but definitely not the whole story since using a driver with an old WDDM version as verified in dxdiag still causes eyestrain.

                                                      degen @%#*! this issue is frustrating!! How is there not an office line of graphics products for working mainly with text comfortably?? Everything is driven by gaming so there's all this advanced 3D and color rendering that all our signals go through just show words on a screen!!

                                                          MPaz Indeed, even uninstalled it from Device Manager so I only have Nvidia and disabled the setting in Bios.
                                                          Non-gsync laptop: over eye aches
                                                          Gsync laptop: temple (side of head) aches

                                                          Definitely up for a monitor suggestion to buy and try on Nsync.

                                                            jrhack Do give 2004/2H2 a try. As you mentioned some others have found workable setups with them. Just do a backup of your working setup.

                                                                dev