Flicker free LED lights
tfouto Is there a way to visually see if your monitor is dithering before your eyes?
Similar to this LCD Test page for pixel inversion:
4 months later
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Has anyone heard of this company?
They sell various products to protect from blue light, including a blue light-free lamp. I could not get from them if it is LED, but I do not see how it could be else.
9 days later
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Yesterday I replaced a dead incandescent bulb in my kitchen with an LED bulb that doesn't flicker to the point where only more sophisticated measurements reveal 0.06% 100 Hz flicker without any warm-up phase (some other bulbs flicker terribly until they've warmed up). The light intensity is very low at 200 lm. The light itself is very orange, much warmer than any incandescents. As the orange color already indicates, a handheld spectrometer shows only negligible amounts of blue light. After some minutes, the light begins to stress my eyes nonetheless. I woke up with burning eyes today. It remains a mystery why LED bulbs are not usable for me. The E14 small version incandescent bulbs had strong 40% 100 Hz sine wave flicker and seemingly more blue light, but were usable.
And my good old bathroom lamp "IKEA PULT" died, so I replaced it with the latest PULT version and the regular incandescent bulb inside it suddenly triggers symptoms. I never knew why the old lamp was so comfortable to look at and I don't know why the new version triggers eye strain. I looked at the electronics and found there most probably are no electronics at all in both lamps. Instead, the ceiling cables go directly to the bulb socket. A difference is the new version has a frosted glass cover while the old one had a milky one. The measurable flicker hasn't changed, still 25% 100 Hz sine waves as usual (60 W bulb).
KM The light itself is very orange, much warmer than any incandescents. As the orange color already indicates, a handheld spectrometer shows only negligible amounts of blue light.
Sounds like the lights in my office, although LED. So what now, are we sensitive to the orange color?
What about the PULT? Is it incandescent and still hurts? What about the color?
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AGI PULT is just a ceiling lamp with a regular bulb socket that you can put any bulb in, be it incandescent, energy-saving, or LED. It has a glass cover, but the color is not changed by much.
https://m2.ikea.com/us/en/p/pult-ceiling-lamp-steel-10193300/
I'm sensitive to all LED bulbs I've seen so far regardless of color (orange up to bluish). Some are extremely aggressive and some less. But the "blue light" and "flicker" theories are maybe not enough to explain problems with orange and (almost) flicker-free bulbs.
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So what happens when you switch the cover from the old unit to the new unit?
KM I had an incredible conversation with the head guy at the blur busters website. I think he may be the leading guy on the internet on why screens and LEDs are as problem. Alexander Wunsch and Dr Arnold Wilkens have nothing on this guy. It sounds like most of us will be waiting till the mid 2020's till LEDs are safe for us. Here is the link to the conversation hope it helps. https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5361&start=0
jasonpicard He
KM He even explains why flux is pretty much useless on LED monitors.
11 days later
Did anyone ever try CRI 97 or higher LED bulbs? I just checked all my bulbs and found they all are labeled either "CRI >80" or "CRI >90". I have been ignoring this spec and dismissing it as unimportant up until now. Could it make all the difference? New quest: finding an LED bulb that is both flicker-free and has CRI 97+? At least the latter info is usually written on packages.
KM Look at this conversation I had with the head guy from blur busters. He talks about all sorts of things in regards to LED screens and lights. He mentions CRI 98 lights by some company he has tried that have a phosphor for the blue light. Normally there is only a phosphor for red and green. I think if more people on this site researched information over there they would have a lot less problems. Nobody I have ever seen on the internet knows more about lights and screens then him. https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5361
I actually printed out everything he told me it was 17 pages. Good luck.
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jasonpicard That thread was what made me think of CRI. But he didn't mention any company or specific product label. Those violet chip bulbs he talks about are hard to find as if the companies don't want our money or they don't even sell it yet and what he talks about was some prototype hands-on. I'd also be curious why the people he talks about that have serious LED issues and finally found relief from violet LED chips didn't ever show up here on the ledstrain forum. I think we'd love to hear their story.
KM His information is so insane. I believe my main issue from taking with him is LED screens main limitation of the 16.7ms motion blur. As he says you have to be way higher in refresh rate on LED to even have a comfortable feel obligated your eyes. I bought the LG24GL600F gaming monitor. It's the first time in 11 years that a monitor has caused zero strain. It's the over drive feature that makes this monitor. He has good articles talking about how a good over drive feature can make a monitor amazing. He talks about so many different scenarios like a 240hz monitor not being very good for any content under 240hz. Some people who are sensitive to Flicker have no issues with BFI. It's just way too much to list here. I'm even using a Sony Wega tube TV now which I haven't been able to use a tube TV so I thought. I have been studying his site for months. I still think I'm only scratching the surface. I believe most of us on here need to control all of our environment. As he always points out different screens for different situations. Most screens can't play movies, games and reading text all in one. DLP, CRT, plasma for movies. The games issue is game dependent and system dependent. Reading is determining what screen works best then highest refresh rate possible. LG is releasing some gaming IPS monitors at 1ms which is a first. Samsung is releasing a 240hz VA. He even says OLED is bound to the same rules as LED. 16.7 ms motion blur at 60hz. Only difference is OLED has a instant pixel response. This usually poses a problem for movies though. I think the LG 2019 OLED solved the problem mostly but it could be a cause of eyestrain fire done still. Playing movies and games and reading text is totally different and I don't think enough people take that into account.
24 days later
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jasonpicard I bought the LG24GL600F gaming monitor. It's the first time in 11 years that a monitor has caused zero strain.
Great to hear that you found a screen that works for you.
I also owned an LG LED screen, but this had 240Hz and not 144Hz. I am not sure if I tested the overdrive function but I got a lot of headache from the LED light, I think.
Sorry if I am a bit sceptical here but how is this LED light different from others? I mean there are people (like me) who suffer from "almost any" LED light bulb. Have not purchased a CRI 93+ LED bulb yet, but I have little hope that this would help. I use glasses with blue light filters and this is not a remedy. So I deem there needs to be something else that triggers the eyes...
How long do you use this screen now? 2 weeks continuously?
jasonpicard I bought the LG24GL600F gaming monitor. It's the first time in 11 years that a monitor has caused zero strain.
What is the hardware driving it? CPU/GPU/cables etc? Do other monitors hurt on that same hardware but with this monitor there is no eyestrain at all with no other changes?
deepflame If you mess around on the Blur Busters forum there is a lot of talk about the 240HZ having issues running 60hz content. They are first generation 240hz panels and a lot of people had complaints with them. From what I understand about this particular monitor I bought it's considered a mature 144hz panel and it's new and exclusive to this monitor. A lot of monitors use the same panels in different monitors. So when I put the overdrive feature to max I have no issues. I don't run a blue light filter or anything. This tells me that my main problem is motion blur. I believe everyone on this site needs to consider that to some degree. It's a problem that plagues every CCFL and LED 16MS persistence motion blur on every 60hz LED. This never existed on Plasma and CRT. It creates a problem called eye tracking where you eye believes the image is going to be in a certain spot when the screen refreshes but it's not. Rtings.com explains this good in there Youtube videos. They have a five part series explaining lots of LED problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNb3X1AM6uI
I have suffered from every 99.9 % of every screen I have ever used for 11 - 12 years and every LED light until this. The two OLED screens that didn't affect me The Samsung S2 and my Yotaphone 2 I was told by the head guy at Blur Busters they use crappy LED's to. 80CRI so it really got me thinking that can't be my problem. I bought probably 10 monitors and returned them in the past 3 months till this one. I think I'm on 1 month and half with it now I have had every game system I own hooked up to it and use it on the computer and have no issues. I brought it on vacation with me and was gaming on it as well. I can use the screen unlimited and I have had tons of 8 hour gaming sessions on it. Over drive is a complicated function and most monitors have terrible over drive features. The Blur Busters guy said that a good over drive can make a monitor amazing. It's predicating where the pixels need to be before they would normally get there and what color they need to be if I understand it correctly. This is a big deal when you think about how slow an LED screen is. Most people think when they stare at a screen it's a still image but no it's a screen constantly redrawing itself and LED does a terrible job at this. especially when you see the Rtings youtube videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJU2drrtCM Check that video out as well by the Slow Mo guys to see how different screens work in slow Mo. That LG monitor you bought I thought there was a giant thread on it on Blur Busters and it wasn't considered very good. I could be totally wrong on that. I'm also testing my first LED light bulb but I want to wait a bit before I say anything. I believe it's only a CRI 80 - 85 but flicker free. Early Impressions is it's not giving me any problems but will see. I know that CRI isn't an issue for me it mainly has to do with motion blur or the lack of phoshor on the blue spectrum or the digital nature of LED. The Blur Busters guy told me that CRT is way easier on the eyes then LED. You have to have a high refresh rate and BFI sometimes to get that smooth clarity of CRT. Also he said panel type matters for different people I think my panel of choice is TN but that may not be the case for other people.
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3624 This is one crazy thread about dither and every other eye problem related to LED.
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5361
This second one is my questions to the head guy at blur busters. Look at his crazy response to me.
hpst Yeah I bought probably 10 different monitors with the same Windows 10 computer had pain. This monitor is the first monitor that gives me no issues.