Very cool stuff.
I've been wondering at what distance is a problematic phone tolerable for people? If I stretch my arm out as far as possible, I can tolerate a phone for a few more minutes before getting a headache. And then also, does the viewing angle of the phone make a difference? Perhaps we can all experiment with this and share the results.
CrestfallDreaming I just returned from my first visit to a neuro-optometrist. From the first series of tests he reckons that my left eye tends to over-converge at near distance and I should try to use prismatic lenses. He is of the opinion that, for people older than 15 years old, loose prism exercises and eye-patching may provide temporarily relief but cannot teach the brain to process visual signals correctly for good. It is too late for that. For adults he suggests eventually patching the weak eye for a short time. Patching the dominant eye would produce more fatigue than benefits. The dominant eye is only to be patched in kids suffering from amblyopia.
I am just reporting what I was told. Clearly, orthoptists and optometrists have different schools of thought.
So we patch the weak eye to make the dominant eye work harder / get stronger itself as its dominant anyway?
I'm wondering then, my right eye is the dominant eye and it is also the eye with the astigmatism.
I would love for all my migraine symptoms to just be because I need different glasses / perscription etc. Even though I had issues before I got glasses! I guess I will have to try and have more eye tests as last one said no difference in perscription needed…and I get symptoms with either eye.
HAL9000 So we patch the weak eye to make the dominant eye work harder / get stronger itself as its dominant anyway?
I do not think so, but please note that I am not a specialist and I am only inferring. You are not trying to make your dominant eye stronger. If your eyes are unable to work together, i.e., one eye is lazy, your brain may have a hard time, and temporarily using only the good eye could be less fatiguing than using the good and the bad eye together. Your dominant eye must be able to "see well", though, so, if it is astigmatic, you will need to wear corrective glasses while you are patching. This is not going to make your dominant eye better nor it is going to improve the condition of your weak eye, and in the long term it is of no use according to the neuro-optometrist. He recommended prismatic lenses. The two orthoptists I visited instead prescribed eye exercises and agreed to patching my dominant eye to attempt to teach the weak eye to behave. As I said, different schools of thought…
AGI I just returned from my first visit to a neuro-optometrist
Just wondering if this is a Doctor that Dr. Debby Feinberg trained (see here for those Doctors)?
ryans Thanks for that link, which you had already posted in another thread. In fact, that is how I found out about neuro-optometry, but the closest specialist trained by Dr. Feinberg is two flights / 10 hours away one way and does not work on weekends. Besides, typically one needs a few iterations for such a complex problem. Add the making of the glasses. Not viable for now, but if the local neuro-optometrist cannot help I may consider getting on a plane…
Have you consulted one too?
By the way, six months ago I saw another optometrist that did not call himself "neuro-optometrist", but did carry out pretty much the same tests, in between an optometrist and an orthoptist. So maybe the name of the specialization is not universal.
AGI thanks for the reply! So just to understand this doctor believe patching the weak eye Can really be a solution for convergence insuffiency?
@mike did you consider checking out neurolens? I read that it has helped serveral patients whoms issues began after lasik, and thet neurolens complety removed their issue.
I wrote to Them on fb and asked if thry have any providers in Europe. They do not but sounded like thry Are looking into opening ik Europe. However, they would not give a eta
CrestfallDreaming No. He seemed of the idea that it is not possible for adults to teach the brain. It should be done before the age of 15. However, I have not talked much about this point with him, as the first appointment was really packed with tests. I already had a second hour of tests - more on the brain side - and I will have a third appointment in a few days to discuss how to proceed. I will update once I know more. In any case, since I am quite stubborn I will still be doing exercises and I will look for more challenging ones. In fact, when I started using a loose divergence prism I could not get the double image to merge into one, then it became easy, so there is margin at any age. What I cannot tell is if the exercises are of concrete help or not for my condition, but to be honest I am not very confident prismatic lenses will solve all my issues either. I think there is more that is not being addressed, specifically, my adverse reaction to certain forms of lighting. Under most LED lights I immediately get eyestrain, neck pain and dizziness, whether I am reading or just sitting idle.
CrestfallDreaming I started my eye-one-training back in late 2018, when I made progress I went all in on that. I think it was a year ago I heard about Neurolens for the first time, then i had made so much progress with covering one eye that I didn’t need to try them. I live in Sweden, and what i know they are only available in USA.
AGI He is of the opinion that, for people older than 15 years old, loose prism exercises and eye-patching may provide temporarily relief but cannot teach the brain to process visual signals correctly for good. It is too late for that.
Is this “the elephant in the room”?
Back in 2018 ∼ all screens newer that 2011 was bad screens for me, today i can use all screens. I am recovered ∼ 90% thanks to one-eye-training, and I am not a kid! This year I have done less than 6 hours training in 6 months (<1 hour/month), so it's not temporarily, it lasts.
Is it a miracle that it worked on me? Why? Is it because I am stubborn? Why are “eye specialists” saying that it only works on kids, is it science behind that statement and how do we tell them that’s wrong?
AGI thanks for the reply. I have done VT without Much succes’s. I do the exercises better and better. It Does However not solve my issue with. Near work
mike I do not know what to tell you. That is "their" statistics, not mine. I did not want to say it, but perhaps selling glasses and lenses is their way to make pennies?
CrestfallDreaming I am sorry to hear that. Keep trying!
AGI i really want to try neurolens i have a hope it could help me. Sadly i am in Europe. Maybe next year ill go to America to get a pair if nothing Else helps…
mike sicence says that vt Can work on adults i believe. Sadly However so far it has not worked for me and i Also Think it says that patching Will not work. Dont get me wrong i am very willing to try it as it has helped you!
It could be the case that Mike trained his brain to suppress vision of one eye which made sense if he only use one eye for longer periods of time. This helps his eye muscles to relax.
This is possible in adults and not uncommon especially if one eye has far worse vision than the other even without explicitly training it.
However, VT tries to avoid this most of the time, since it can lead to a situation in which your non dominant eye gets weaker, since it isn't part of your visual system. In Mike's case it is maybe not that problematic if it is only limited to close range.
So if we assume that Mike has suppressed his non dominant eye then doing VT which helps both eyes to work better together doesn't make sense. In this case it could be "helpful/harmful" to cover your non dominant as long as possible when working close range.
CrestfallDreaming if you want to try it with its own risks, it can work since it is not the same as learning binocular vision when over a certain age.
xelaos We have to sort this out …
xelaos It could be the case that Mike trained his brain to suppress vision of one eye which made sense if he only use one eye for longer periods of time. This helps his eye muscles to relax.
I haven’t done so much covering as one might think (mostly 1-2 hours a day under some months, and then some more) and I got progress quite easy in the beginning. Maybe because I started at a bad level.
xelaos This is possible in adults and not uncommon especially if one eye has far worse vision than the other even without explicitly training it.
I have done LASIK 19 years ago so i have very good vision on both eyes.
xelaos However, VT tries to avoid this most of the time, since it can lead to a situation in which your non dominant eye gets weaker, since it isn't part of your visual system. In Mike's case it is maybe not that problematic if it is only limited to close range.
So if we assume that Mike has suppressed his non dominant eye then doing VT which helps both eyes to work better together doesn't make sense. In this case it could be "helpful/harmful" to cover your non dominant as long as possible when working close range.
Or can it be that i have relearned to use my eyes as a person who don’t have this problems?
xelaos CrestfallDreaming if you want to try it with its own risks, it can work since it is not the same as learning binocular vision when over a certain age.
As always everything you do is on your own risk. Live with this problem for ever or try to fix it.
Using only one eye has worked for so many in this thread so …
Mike you can test if you have binocular vision when working on displays or in close range, so it is not too complicated to figure out for your specific case and It would also be interesting to know.
As I outlined if you have good vision it can be due to fact that you use both eyes for long range vision.
However, I just wanted to outline that even if establishing good binocular vision doesn't work for @CrestfallDreaming it can be beneficial to try using only one eye for temporary relief or to suppress vision of one eye which of course comes with certain potential problems which maybe are less severe than those of his current situation.
I think its only logical to assume that the dominant eye should be stronger and its the non-dominant eye causing the problems, but what if it is the brain favoring the dominant eye causing the problem somehow? What if the dominant eye actually has a problem.
We may also have a split of people affected, eye issues and brain issues, I have suspected this for some time. If eye issues were everyones cause then it is likely that everyone could use similar screens, but we have people that cannot use any LED screens, some people that can use PWM screens and otheres that cannot.
Personally its not making a difference for me, I'm alternating one eye then the other, but I shall continue.
I still see static after some time when only using one eye, very strange. Quite uncomfortable overall and my vision is better with both eyes open even with glasses.
HAL9000 my dominant eye is actually my weak eye. At near point it will some times turn outward ( this has a name but can't remember it) to me it actually feels nicee to cover the dominant eye
