**Please see update below this post as this info is now out of date** Hi guys, I'm a long term sufferer of extreme migraines and headaches which started after purchasing my Late-2011 model Macbook Pro back in Jan 2012. For me, these migraines are typified by sharp pain in my left eye, swirling nausea, neck pain, and photosensitivity, all of which can last for days from fairly short periods of usage on a 'bad' system. I'm a long term reader and contributor of this and the Apple discussion on the subject. After many years of trying to find solutions to allow me to use a Macbook, I have discovered that I have a particular sensitivity to temporal dithering algorithms used by OSX, some monitors / TVs and AMD graphics cards on PCs. After countless trips to doctors, optometrists and specialists there's nothing noticable wrong with my eyes, and various forms of glasses did nothing. I have only persisted with trying to use Macbooks as I teach people who use them for a living. Anyway, I took the plunge three weeks ago after lots of tests in stores and bought a Dell XPS 15 9550 laptop (1920x1080 Matt screen, Nvidia GTX 960M & Intel 530 graphics). As soon as I received the laptop I installed Ditherig.exe: http://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp_en.html This disabled temporal dithering for Intel graphics cards. Three weeks in and my headaches and migraines have lifted. I can use the screen for hours on end with no problems whatsoever, it's back like the old days when I had a laptop without an LED display. I do feel that the exposure to Macbook screens over the years has permanently affected my eyes though. I find that if I'm even slightly tired and I look at any kind of screen with LED lighting I'm likely to wake up with a headache or migraine, which I believe is down to s sensitivity to blue light which has increased since my problems began. Anyway, I'm happy with where I'm at just now and wanted to share my news in the hope that it might help someone else. Good luck! Simon **UPDATE JANUARY 2020 (OUT OF DATE, SEE BELOW)** I just wanted to provide an update regarding my current system in 2020 as the above post is now out of date. I still have severe temporal dithering sensitivity. I have not found another usable setup, but my current laptop is perfect and I can use it for many hours per day with no eye strain or migraines. Hope this helps anyone else in my situation! Laptop: Dell XPS 9560, with 1080p FHD matte screen Windows Version: Windows 10 version 1511 (this is very important) System tweaks: Intel & Nvidia Display adapters disabled in Device Manager Software: Ditherig v1.11 with all dithering disabled, Windows Update Blocker: https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-5/ **UPDATE JULY 2020** Huge update here. Since moving to Windows 10 v2004 (May 2020 update) there has been a massive improvement in my symptoms. Now, as long as I use old Intel drivers and ditherig.exe (still not sure if this does anything but can't change it now!) then I can use my machine **without disabling** the graphics drivers. This has changed my life as I can now play games, do video editing, use the HDMI output, and have the power saving features of the laptop (battery lasts about 400% longer!). It's the first time in 8 years I've been able to do these things, ever since getting my first Macbook in January 2012 and discovering my temporal dithering sensitivity and my ability to have non-stop migraines.. To confirm, my 100% working setup (been testing for months now): Laptop: Dell XPS 9560, with 1080p FHD matte screen Windows Version: Windows 10 version 2004 (this is very important) Intel HD 630 driver version: 21.20.16.4475 (from 2016, more recent drivers cause symptoms) Nvidia driver version: 26.21.14.4614 (latest) Additional Software: Ditherig v1.11 with all dithering disabled, Windows Update Blocker: https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-5/ After finding this solution, I tried buying some modern laptops but it would seem that all Intel UHD drivers (anything from 8th generation processors onwards) cause me symptoms. So right now the most recent processor I can use is Intel 7th generation with the 2016 drivers. I am so happy to have a laptop I can use all day, really hope this helps someone else in my situation. **UPDATE OCTOBER 2020** I have been using Windows 10 v2004 since May now with graphics drivers enabled on my Dell XPS 15 9560 and have been largely without any issues whatsoever. Happy days. I'm still using Ditherig.exe v1.11 (not tried any other version), Intel driver 21.20.16.4475 and Nvidia driver 26.21.14.4614. I did have a period where I started getting headaches again, and I noticed that dithering was periodically being enabled at seemingly random intervals, but probably because some request was made to the graphics drivers. I realised this was happening because my desktop background (colour #c84141) shows banding when everything is set up correctly, and no banding when my display is problematic for me - I took pictures of what I mean: 1. Perfect setup - Background has Banding [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/XshPqNC.jpg] 2. Bad Setup - No Banding [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/qxXrpYm.jpeg] Here's the desktop for you if you'd like to try it: [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/P3uXaOi.jpg] So I am checking my desktop from time to time, and if there is no banding then I have created a shortcut which restarts explorer, and this fixes the issue. To do this: 1. Right click on the desktop and go to New -> Shortcut 2. In the box that appears, copy and paste this: C:\\Windows\\System32\\cmd.exe /c taskkill.exe /f /im explorer.exe && start explorer.exe 3. Save the shortcut and run it whenever you need to Hope that helps someone out, I can honestly say that this setup has changed my life. 🚀 Here's my system profile in case it helps someone for comparison to their machine: [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/11nNfbz.png] **UPDATE JANUARY 2021** Update on the Nvidia G-Sync enabled laptop I purchased, the HP Omen 15-ek0005na. Booting the laptop after receiving it I initially felt the familiar 'jitter' in my eyes, an inability for them to be at peace that I recognise from MacBooks and any laptop other than my working setup. This was followed by a dizzy feeling quite quickly. I jumped into Device Manager and noticed that Intel UHD graphics were running alongside the RTX 2070. Opening the Omen Command Centre software there is an option to switch from Hybrid graphics (Intel & RTX - good for power saving / gaming occasionally) or to pure Discrete graphics: [upl-image-preview url=//i.imgur.com/ylyiyYF.png] After switching to Discrete and rebooting the Intel UHD graphics are gone from Device Manager, the display is calm and feels flat like paper, just like on my working setup. There are of course a few of downsides of G-Sync laptop: * being a gaming laptop, they are big and ugly - if it's for everyday work and travel the XPS 15 9560 would be my go-to * it's not silent even when idling, and makes a bit of a racket when gaming * power management in Discrete-only mode will be affected, so shorter battery life I'm happy to trade all of this for a working machine though, and this has been the easiest on my eyes that I've tried in many years even after 6-8 hours of gaming and working each day. Good luck! Simon **UPDATE - DECEMBER 2024** I hope you're all well and finding solutions to your problems. I've been meaning to come back and provide an update on my current situation. In general, I have found workable, manageable systems and a balance of medications that have kept all my symptoms at bay. **Health** I am 41 and in pretty good health. I have been proactive in getting many tests done over the years in case there was some hidden physical or neurological condition that was causing the problems, but nothing major has come back. This has included: * specialist eye tests - my local university happens to have a specialist ophthalmic department for diagnosis of obscure eye problems. Everything came back perfect - I still have 20/20 vision. * blood tests * general health check-ups and speaking with multiple specialists across different fields I do find it important to stop using screens around an hour before bed. ***Pattern Glare / Visual Stress*** My journey to finding a workable phone led me to discover that I believe I may suffer from pattern glare / visual stress. I actually believe that in my case this may contribute more to my problems more than 'temporal dithering' - in the 13 years I've been having this problem we've still not found anything conclusive relating to TD, but pattern glare / visual stress is a very real thing. See[ this thread here](https://ledstrain.org/d/1909-iphone-13-strange-journey-to-success-working-theory) for more information. ***Neck Pain*** I still experience moderate to severe neck pain from use of any systems, particularly down the back left hand side of my neck. I have found huge benefit to the likelihood of waking up with a headache / migraine from stretching at night before bed. The yoga move child's pose works well for this - often I will continue stretching until I feel movement / popping / bubbling in my sinus area above my left eye, exactly where all my pain originates from on bad systems. ***Relevant Medication - Migraines / Headaches*** I have found a balance of medications that work for me - please do not take this as advice, but it is 100% relevant to my journey to a migraine-free life. I have often tried cutting down or adjusting these medications but ultimately the likelihood of headaches and migraines increases hugely. Some of these are prescribed by my doctor, and some I have discovered to work very well for me. *Propanolol - 80mg per day* This was prescribed by my doctor for migraines and definitely has a huge positive impact. *Levothryroxine* Probably unrelated but worth mentioning in case underactive thyroid is a common problem between users here as it has wide-ranging health implications. *Magnesium - 400mg per day* I have found this to significantly improve the likelihood of waking up without a headache. *CBD Oil - 3000mg per 30 ml - 5 drops per day* This is the one I've tried and tried to disprove. I have been certain for years that there's a placebo effect with this and I have on multiple occasions stopped taking it, only to find that within a few weeks headaches and clusters of migraines return. I can say with certainty now that **for me**, CBD Oil is contributing very positively to my lack of migraines. This is the non-psychoactive oil (there's no high from it) and it is definitely worth a try - it does take a few weeks to build up and there's very little science to support it. **Current Usable Systems** I am still unable to simply use *any* system for *any* length of time, however with the medical interventions and stretching above I am able to use most systems for short periods of time at work without major issues. I can still tell immediately when a screen is no good for me (jittering eyes / unable to focus / left eye will ultimately begin getting painful etc). ***Dell XPS 15 9560*** I have 5 of these machines now, all with the configuration detailed above and I am able to use all of them with relatively few issues other than neck pain. They are all running the latest version of Windows 11 - windows versions don't seem to affect me. The Nvidia drivers are still the extremely old ones (about the first ones ever released for this laptop). [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/1Bj8Bqe.png] [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/y8V04X2.png] This is my go-to laptop for working on the go. I still use ditherig and the shortcut detailed above when using this machine - as ever it's hard to prove what is actually making a difference but if it works…. ***New PC Build*** I have recently built a new PC, including changing the monitors and graphics card. I did this in stages - taking a working system from before (GTX 770 / i7 8750 / benq 2440w monitor) and changing the motherboard and CPU first, then the monitors, and then the graphics card. I'm very happy to say that I've had no issues with it and it's working perfectly for me. OS: Windows 11 23H2 Mobo: Asus B550 Creator CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X GPU: Gigabyte Geforce RTX 3070 Eagle OC 8G GPU Driver: 32.0.15.6614 (6th Nov 2024) Monitors: Dell S2421HN I am finding this system completely comfortable to use, which was a huge surprise to me. I expected a lot more experimentation to find a setup / combination of hardware that would work, but it was relatively simple in the end. ***iPhone 13*** Please see [this thread](https://ledstrain.org/d/1909-iphone-13-strange-journey-to-success-working-theory) for details on how I got the iPhone 13 to be fully usable for me. **Conclusion** Good luck with your journey. Please take my experiences with a pinch of salt - this is largely a neurological condition with some physical affectations, but hopefully some of the above may help someone to find a solution to their problem. Keep at it - it does get better!

How did you get Ditherig installed? I just purchased one of these XPS 9550's, and the screen is pretty painful compared to the XPS 13 I was using before (and am still using, to type this note). Can you walk us through a successful install of ditherig??? Please!?

XPS 15 9550 has 960M and 530. Did you disable 960M?

@"cdprice"#p1452 I believe the Intel card is the one causing the problems (the 530)

The intel card is always active on the XPS 15, the 960 renders 3D but the output always goes through the Intel's frame buffer. I still would love to know how he got that app installed, I've never seen it run successfully or heard of anyone who has done so.

My experience with XPS's has been mixed. I have an XPS 13 (2105 model, Core i5) which runs GREAT and is easy for me to look at as long as I keep the display drivers from upgrading. I have to use drivers from 2015 or else they cause immediate pain. I got an XPS 15 and it hurts to look at. I'm checking the panel manufacturer, because my boss has an XPS 15 and it's very easy to look at. It's also possible he has older drivers, I suspect I may have accidentally put on the latest Intel drivers whereas he probably has the Dell standard ones from our corporate imaging server. Another coworker has a Precision 15, same chassis and screen, same Intel chip, but a Quadro instead of a GeForce. It also looks great. I'm going to compare panel manufacturers between the three, but also experiment with drivers to see if I can't get mine back to being comfortable so I can stop using the 13" which is a great little machine but a bit small.

I'd also really like to know how to install Ditherig, the instructions are in Japanese....

Temporal Dithering Sensitivity - My Solution

Gurm

Hoping he comes back and tells us at some point. This forum doesn't seem to have direct messaging option turned on.

degen

Download the archive and extract to somewhere out of the way, go into the amd64 folder, right click ditherig.exe and run as administrator. Now the ditherig icon should be in your system tray.

Now when you right click the ditherig icon in the system tray you will see all the settings of the program, and it's all in English. By default it is set to no dithering but there are other options. There is also an option to register it to Windows start up. Click that and then restart your PC just in case to make sure its active and that ditherig is being loaded with Windows.

si_edgey

Hi guys,

Sorry about the delay in responding - as mentioned above this forum does not by default send notifications when a response is sent to your thread - perhaps this could be updated easily?

With regards to Ditherig, I had no problems installing it once extracted. When I tried to run it from the zip file it doesn't work but once you extract the file it installs straight away and when run it sits in the task bar, automatically disabling all dithering for the Intel graphics chip. I've had no problems with this laptop so far - several weeks in now! I've sat and worked on it for hours on end without issue, and I've tried all different brightnesses with no problems so far.

I'm not completely convinced yet (seems to good to be true) so let's see how the next few weeks pan out - these things seem to be accumulative. But so far, I'm migraine & headache free, feeling back to my normal self finally after years of struggling with this.

Remember to right click the icon in the tray and to register the program to run at startup and you're good to go. Gurm - are you on the 1080p matt screen rather than the 4K glossy screen? I have thought for years since the early Apple forum days that we have largely the same condition so fingers crossed this all works for you too. :]

Slacor

si_edgey Sorry about the delay in responding - as mentioned above this forum does not by default send notifications when a response is sent to your thread - perhaps this could be updated easily?

You can view your settings page at https://ledstrain.org/settings

Right now, activating "Automatically follow discussions that I reply to" email for "Someone posts in a discussion I'm following" should simulate this behavior

FNP7

si_edgey This is a really exciting development. Thanks very much for sharing it. Please forgive my ignorance of matters technical, but if Ditherig disables temporal dithering on Intel's integrated graphics chips, it wouldn't matter if it was used on a windows laptop with a separate graphics card or not, would it? In other words, if I try installing Ditherig on a laptop with Intel integrated graphics and separately on a laptop with integrated Intel graphics and a discrete graphics card, it should in theory work in both cases, shouldn't it? Assuming that the temporal dithering caused by Intel's integrated graphics is what is causing my own eye discomfort/ headaches etc...

si_edgey

ps in my tests in the store the 4K glossy screen hurt my eyes quickly - it's very hard to tell in those circumstances what the long term effect will be but I tested them as extensively as I could.

Also worth mentioning - there are reviews all over the internet from users of the 9550 who adopted early when there were SIGNIFICANT driver issues. I've been using the laptop for over a month now and it's rock solid, all driver issues have been fixed so don't let that put you off.

Very happy here!

Gurm

I have the matte screen, I also felt that the 4k glossy would be headache-inducing.

I haven't used it much due to it not being great to look at, but I'll try ditherig tonight and let you know ASAP.

I also have an XPS 13 which is my main daily driver, and I have to keep the drivers downgraded because newer ones are instantly uncomfortable, I'll try ditherig on that as well.

Honestly, I've avoided lots of machines for some time now due to the Intel drivers being terrible, if this really works it will be a lifesaver!

si_edgey

Slacor

Slacor Right now, activating "Automatically follow discussions that I reply to" email for "Someone posts in a discussion I'm following" should simulate this behavior

Thanks man, all sorted now!

Gurm Honestly, I've avoided lots of machines for some time now due to the Intel drivers being terrible, if this really works it will be a lifesaver!

Good luck man, fingers crossed it works for you as well. I will update later with which drivers I am using but it will be the most up to date ones for the Intel gfx. Just a wee extra bit of information - I have also noticed that I am considerably less tolerant of any type of LED screen in the evenings these days. I have explored various options as to why this would be - using a screen when I'm even slightly tired results in (at best) a headache in the morning lasting the whole day or (at worst) a migraine.

Using some sleep cycle apps on my phone while sleeping I have definitely correlated late night viewing of LED screens with very disturbed sleep. I have read papers on this which link blue light and disturbed sleep, as most on here will know. I have been experimenting with taking a sleeping tablet when I feel my eyes getting sore in the late evening when watching TV etc, and have found that this significantly reduces my chance of waking up with a headache.

Obviously, you don't want to take too many sleeping tablets but it's an interesting thing and a very noticeable difference for me. I have experimented with Nytol (one a night variety) and also Diazepam (not recommended due to extreme addictiveness). Just an extra thought to throw in. Good luck folks!

UPDATE: My Intel HD 530 Drivers are dated 01/07/2016 and driver version 20.19.15.4483

Gurm

So it depends on the age of the laptop as well as whether or not (obviously) the Temporal Dithering is causing you problems. New (last 2 years) Intel laptops with discrete graphic coprocessors (usually nVidia) still use the Intel chip for the final phases of rendering. In other words, the framebuffer and output control happen on Intel. (Or, if you are using a VGA port, DAC also happens there). The coprocessor just renders frames and deposits them into the framebuffer. This is actually great technology, but bad news for those of us who can't look at Intel chips.

I tried this (ditherig) on my Surface Book, it didn't make much difference but the screen on that is so high-def that honestly I think that is 90% of the problem there (it's a 12" screen running at 4k). I'm going to try on my pair of XPS's and see how that turns out, as well as on my Surface Pro 3. I'll post back.

FNP7

Gurm Thanks for the reply. Would be very interested to know how you get on with Ditherig on your XPS's. Cheers

FNP7

Gurm I bought an XPS13 (Intel Core Core i5-7200U, Intel HD Graphics 620) with the matte 1920x1080 screen, and tried to install Ditherig, but without success. I tried version 1.5 (then later 1.4), extracting the files from the downloads folder into the apps folder of the hard drive, and then proceeded to run the ditherig.exe as administrator (the one in the AMD64 folder). The Ditherig icon appears in the bar at the bottom of the screen, so that I can even open it and see all the options, but I can't select any as I get the following error message: 'Dithering Settings for Intel Graphics: Failed to configure the registers.' Am I just doing something stupid, or does this mean that Ditherig isn't compatible with Intel HD Graphics 620? Just to see, I tried to run as administrator the x86 exe from within the Ditherig archive too, and got the error message: Dithering Settings for Intel Graphics: Failed to load a DLL.

If anyone is able to help, I'd be really grateful, as I'm just going to return the XPS 13 otherwise. It's nowhere near as painful as other LCDs I've used. But it's definitely not comfortable for me.

Quad43

FNP7 Did you ever solve the "failed to configure the registers" error? It's so strange as 1.11 works fine and now all of a sudden it won't. 1.13 works but that one doesn't have the same benefit/impact on reducing strain.

si_edgey

Did you get this sorted @FNP7 or did you return the machine>? Ditherig didn't have any problems installing on my XPS 15 with Intel Graphics 530.

I just wanted to check in now it has been a few monthsand say that this laptop has remained usable for me with Ditherig installed. It's the easiest my eyes have felt with a laptop screen for years! Again, I'm using the Matte 1920x1080 screen, no touch. Intel drivers are version 20.19.15.4483 and Nvidia drivers are version 10.18.13.6881.

Really hope this helps someone else! Did you have any joy @Gurm?

FNP7

si_edgey Sorry for the delay in responding. I couldn't get Ditherig installed on the XPS13, so had to return that machine. I don't understand why I couldn't get it to work - perhaps it's not compatible with Intel HD Graphics 620? Anyway - am very glad that it's still working for you. :-) It'd be interesting to hear if anyone else can get it to work too.

Gurm

Ditherig makes my XPS13 - which was already very nice - a real joy. If only it were more powerful (it's last year's model, so a Core i5). My XPS15 gets BETTER with Ditherig, but not perfect. I am going to play with drivers. It's worth noting that the XPS15 has Anniversary edition of Windows 10 on it, which is worse on my eyes than standard Windows 10 (I've refused to upgrade on my primary machines since I have work to get done!)

I am going to try reinstalling the XPS15 with Windows 10 non-anniversary (I assume Windows 7 is not an option) which might make it much friendlier, and then roll back the Intel drivers to last year's drivers (which I use with much success on the XPS13). Adding ditherig on top of this may very well make this the ultimate machine for me... at least until I am forced to go to Anniversary Edition. 🙁

ensete

Finally got Ditherig installed on my machine, I used the newest version (1.6). Can folks share the settings they used to achieve the best result? Did you need to reboot to see changes?

Gurm

It should be IMMEDIATELY obvious. It kicks in instantly. If you see it running in the tray area, it's active. Your chip might not be supported, although it ought to be with the latest version.

ensete

OK, I will continue to use it and see how it feels. The laptop video card is an Intel HD 5500 which is listed as a supported.

Gurm

ensete It can also be the drivers. Also if you are running Windows 10 anniversary edition (any version higher than 1585) that can be the cause as well. I downgraded all my Windows 10 machines to 1585 and am doing much better as a result.

ensete

Gurm I'm not runnig Win 10, and unfortunately since it s a work laptop I cannot easily change the drivers. Ugh

Gurm

Yeah, so the culprit is likely the latest Intel drivers, which are harsher than the ones from, say, a year ago.

ensete

Gurm That's where I am learning. I'm going to try the standard VGA drivers, if that eliminates the issue I will try and get older drivers installed, if none of those work I will just have to live with VGA unless I can find a setup that uses a different video card out of the laptop. Apparently there is a whole little cottage industry of external video card setups for laptops, primarily for gaming performance, bt it could be an option for us