Markus Can you post the complete specific of your Dell notebook or a link?

It's a Dell XPS 15 (9560 model), with the 1920x1080 (FHD) matte screen. The spec is i7 7700HQ, 16GB RAM, Intel 630 Graphics (disabled) and Nvidia GTX 1050 (disabled). I've upgraded to have 2x 2TB SSD hard drives, it's a powerful machine and will last for years I hope. The key thing for me is to use Windows 10 v1511 and disable those drivers, and run ditherig.exe (not sure if this does anything but if it ain't broke....!).

https://www.dell.com/en-uk/shop/cty/pdp/spd/xps-15-9560-laptop

Markus Do you fell any discomfort using latest Firefox or Chrome browser with your setup? Is watching YouTube with any of that browsers comfortable for you?

On this setup I'm fine with anything. I use Chrome all day long. I truly believe it's the intel drivers that are causing the discomfort on my machine, for my symptoms.

diop Cheers for the update!

I waited a good few months to ensure that there's no placebo involved, this is definitely a perfectly working setup for me so I really hope it helps others.

          si_edgey Is the panel on your XPS 15 the Sharp LQ156M1 (have it on my 7390)? Thanks to you sharing your experience I am using it on XPS 15 7390 (but with Windows 2015 LTSB, which I believe is based on 1507) with Intel Graphics disabled, and it's pretty good in a brightly lit room. It's unfortunate it uses PWM on lower brightness.

              si_edgey You can download HWiNFO and it will tell you under the Display section of the program.

              My experience using Dasung Paperlike testing is that software like flux and iris introduce additional dithering, so I don't use them.

              Thankfully that particular Sharp panel I mentioned only uses PWM below 26%, but it is still quite bright at the level.

                si_edgey On this setup I'm fine with anything. I use Chrome all day long. I truly believe it's the intel drivers that are causing the discomfort on my machine, for my symptoms.

                Have you tried W10 1511+No drivers setup on other machines? Does Windows update play nicely or are there any issues?

                I'm feeling brave so I may test this on my NUC and report back (when I bought it last year I was using the latest W10+Intel Drivers enabled).

                Now to hunt for a copy of W10... does anybody know the 1507/1511 hashes?

                    diop From my archive

                    SHA1:

                    cee9e8f9650b4179ed1b29922442351dd46f50a2  en_windows_10_enterprise_version_1511_updated_feb_2016_x64_dvd_8378876.iso

                    SHA256:

                    f4c1d2494d4d3f40c4fb0bdea3f7b8cdeea4a9fc9311be5d05ba1386d99c92c2  en_windows_10_enterprise_version_1511_updated_feb_2016_x64_dvd_8378876.iso

                      I'm pretty sure you can use Windows without licensing for testing, it'll just nag you 😛

                      Hate to plug it all the time, but 2015 LTSB is based on 1507 and doesn't have the 1607+ composition layer shenanigans and it still gets security updates

                        diop Have you tried W10 1511+No drivers setup on other machines? Does Windows update play nicely or are there any issues?

                        I've tried it on all the machines I use (2x desktop computers and 2x laptops) and it's fine. But I need multiple video outs from the desktops so I have to be careful which graphics cards I use - currently I'm using 2x Nvidia GTX 770 cards.

                        Also, I've updated the original post as you have to install Windows Update Blocker to stop ANY updates once you have a working setup. It disables the update service with one switch:

                        https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-5/

                        degen Hate to plug it all the time, but 2015 LTSB is based on 1507 and doesn't have the 1607+ composition layer shenanigans and it still gets security updates

                        Good shout actually - @diop you can use the LTSB version if you like, my problem was that my Nvidia graphics card isn't supported on 1507, so i have to use 1511.

                            I got a copy of LTSB 1507 and installed on my NUC. My initial impressions are that compared to an 18xx install on a different machine I have, the 2015 version definitely looks more comfortable.

                            It hasn't been connected to the internet and the resoluton seemed to be stuck at 800x600 for some reason, but it was using the MS Display Adapter.

                            I still felt heavy eyes after about 5/10 minutes.. I have a feeling in my case this is a h/w issue, as 1) This NUC is much newer hardware compared to your working laptop, and 2) I believe internally it's using a DP>HDMI converter which may have something to do with it.

                            Even comparing BIOS/Splash screens on my really old PC and the NUC.. The 'Intel NUC' splash is a much harsher (bluer?) white compared to the old 2010 PC I have which seems much more milky white. This may have some influence in the symptoms I am having.

                            If I can find your laptop for a reasonable price in the future I will be sure to give it a try though 🙂.

                              diop Sorry to hear that @diop. One of the tricky things about my particular symptoms are the lag - it can take a week or two to feel fully 'in the clear' after changing setup, so it might be worth persisting a little? Just to confirm - run dxdiag from the start menu and make sure that in the Display tab it is the basic adapter that is currently in use? And also have you installed ditherig?

                              I understand that the BIOS screen shouldn't really be giving you trouble so perhaps it is a hardware issue. It's so hard to know..

                              • diop replied to this.

                                  si_edgey Ditherig 1.11 was running. In my experience though I have never found ditherig make a difference on a desktop however on a laptop I can see a marked difference switching it on. I'm not sure why this is the case..

                                  Can the basic adapter go beyond 800x600 to FHD resolutions? Also how does your laptop perform with gaming/youtube videos etc?

                                      diop Yes, I'm running at 1920x1080 (the maximum resolution of my screen) and I really don't notice not having a graphics card apart from:

                                      • I can't use the HDMI out on the laptop without re-enabling graphics drivers, so I do this for presentations
                                      • I can't play games without re-enabling graphics drivers

                                      But I use Photoshop and Premiere, make music in Ableton Live, watch videos etc all without noticing any slowdown.

                                        Can I just echo some earlier sentiments above that so far the MS Edge browser has been much better than any current Chrome or Firefox version that I've tried. ('Touch wood')

                                          Are you guys who like Edge using the new Edge or legacy Edge?

                                            degen Are you guys who like Edge using the new Edge or legacy Edge?

                                            The new one (Chrome based).

                                              AgentX20 Can I just echo some earlier sentiments above that so far the MS Edge browser has been much better than any current Chrome or Firefox version that I've tried. ('Touch wood')

                                              I've been using it exclusively for at least a month now, and it really is more comfortable (and hard to explain why!). I would suggest everybody here try it at least for testing purposes.

                                              Comparing the latest Chromium build to Edge (viewing the same web page side by side); Chromium uses the same default fonts as Edge, but there is a slight difference in the appearance. Maybe Edge is using some old IE rendering or something proprietary...

                                                17 days later

                                                Shasm Sadly I’ve yet to find a MacOS device that I can use comfortably for more than 30 minutes. We’re hoping for a breakthrough soon though (see the OSX dithering thread).

                                                  Dithing isn't an issue with me but I think I recall using the Cinnamon shell of Linux Mint, it has a control panel display setting where you can change the dithering type or just turn it off.

                                                  Comparing the latest Chromium build to Edge (viewing the same web page side by side); Chromium uses the same default fonts as Edge, but there is a slight difference in the appearance. Maybe Edge is using some old IE rendering or something proprietary...

                                                  While I will reiterate my motto of "if it works for you, great, keep doing it" that's hard to make sense of. any Chromium based browser is going to be the same no matter what the wrapper around it is. It;s the exact same rendering engine, that's the whole point of Chroimum is one identical rendering engine so no matter what browser you are using with it, devs only need to code to one standard

                                                  I find old versions of Firefox to be the best for my eyes, and chrome to come in second. I have to pick a new theme since the default one has the light grays that kill my eyes.

                                                  • diop replied to this.
                                                    dev