VSABALAIEV78 that uses FRC (8+2frc) so it's gonna dither. Best to leave HDR disabled to leave it as 8bit

    6 days later
    8 months later

    Hello again guys , is it possible to feel better when using hdmi on 144 than dp 165 or its a plasebo that im felling ?I believe that cable and my pc is the changing factor from when I was able to work longer hours without getting tired before ..

      gregtsakil9 hdmi on 144 than dp 165

      its depend on panel specification

      In majority, all panels are 144hz, but reducing some vertical sync-timings, you can set more higher refresh rate ( 165, 180 etc )

      Another question is how v-com work in your panel: in high freq (120+) it can be less noticable than in 60hz

        9 days later

        AlanSmith For me I feel hdmi is better someone told me it also supposed to do with vcom settings of each monitor.

          Update - December 2024

          I hope you're all well and finding solutions to your problems. I've been meaning to come back and provide an update on my current situation. In general, I have found workable, manageable systems and a balance of medications that have kept all my symptoms at bay.

          Health

          I am 41 and in pretty good health. I have been proactive in getting many tests done over the years in case there was some hidden physical or neurological condition that was causing the problems, but nothing major has come back.

          This has included:

          • specialist eye tests - my local university happens to have a specialist ophthalmic department for diagnosis of obscure eye problems. Everything came back perfect - I still have 20/20 vision.
          • blood tests
          • general health check-ups and speaking with multiple specialists across different fields

          I do find it important to stop using screens around an hour before bed.

          Pattern Glare / Visual Stress

          My journey to finding a workable phone led me to discover that I believe I may suffer from pattern glare / visual stress.

          I actually believe that in my case this may contribute more to my problems more than 'temporal dithering' - in the 13 years I've been having this problem we've still not found anything conclusive relating to TD, but pattern glare / visual stress is a very real thing.

          See this thread here for more information.

          Neck Pain

          I still experience moderate to severe neck pain from use of any systems, particularly down the back left hand side of my neck. I have found huge benefit to the likelihood of waking up with a headache / migraine from stretching at night before bed.

          The yoga move child's pose works well for this - often I will continue stretching until I feel movement / popping / bubbling in my sinus area above my left eye, exactly where all my pain originates from on bad systems.

          Relevant Medication - Migraines / Headaches

          I have found a balance of medications that work for me - please do not take this as advice, but it is 100% relevant to my journey to a migraine-free life. I have often tried cutting down or adjusting these medications but ultimately the likelihood of headaches and migraines increases hugely.

          Some of these are prescribed by my doctor, and some I have discovered to work very well for me.

          Propanolol - 80mg per day

          This was prescribed by my doctor for migraines and definitely has a huge positive impact.

          Levothryroxine

          Probably unrelated but worth mentioning in case underactive thyroid is a common problem between users here as it has wide-ranging health implications.

          Magnesium - 400mg per day

          I have found this to significantly improve the likelihood of waking up without a headache.

          CBD Oil - 3000mg per 30 ml - 5 drops per day

          This is the one I've tried and tried to disprove. I have been certain for years that there's a placebo effect with this and I have on multiple occasions stopped taking it, only to find that within a few weeks headaches and clusters of migraines return. I can say with certainty now that for me, CBD Oil is contributing very positively to my lack of migraines. This is the non-psychoactive oil (there's no high from it) and it is definitely worth a try - it does take a few weeks to build up and there's very little science to support it.

          Current Usable Systems

          I am still unable to simply use any system for any length of time, however with the medical interventions and stretching above I am able to use anything for short periods of time at work without major issues.

          I can still tell immediately when a screen is no good for me (jittering eyes / unable to focus / left eye will ultimately begin getting painful etc).

          Dell XPS 15 9560

          I have 5 of these machines now, all with the configuration detailed above and I am able to use all of them with relatively few issues other than neck pain.

          They are all running the latest version of Windows 11 - windows versions don't seem to affect me. The Nvidia drivers are still the extremely old ones (about the first ones ever released for this laptop).

          This is my go-to laptop for working on the go. I still use ditherig and the shortcut detailed above when using this machine - as ever it's hard to prove what is actually making a difference but if it works….

          New PC Build

          I have recently built a new PC, including changing the monitors and graphics card. I did this in stages - taking a working system from before (GTX 770 / i7 8750 / benq 2440w monitor) and changing the motherboard and CPU first, then the monitors, and then the graphics card. I'm very happy to say that I've had no issues with it and it's working perfectly for me.

          OS: Windows 11 23H2
          Mobo: Asus B550 Creator
          CPU: Ryzen 9 5950X
          GPU: Gigabyte Geforce RTX 3070 Eagle OC 8G
          GPU Driver: 32.0.15.6614 (6th Nov 2024)
          Monitors: Dell S2421HN

          I am finding this system completely comfortable to use, which was a huge surprise to me. I expected a lot more experimentation to find a setup / combination of hardware that would work, but it was relatively simple in the end.

          iPhone 13

          Please see this thread for details on how I got the iPhone 13 to be fully usable for me.

          Conclusion

          Good luck with your journey. Please take my experiences with a pinch of salt - this is largely a neurological condition with some physical affectations, but hopefully some of the above may help someone to find a solution to their problem.

          Keep at it - it does get better!

          25 days later

          CRT monitor means no dithering.

          Well firstly @si_edgey a big thankyou for this post and sharing all your hard work. There is a real synchronicity here as the only laptop I have ever been able to use for any length of time is exactly the same one as you! It was just by chance that I bought a Dell XPS 9560 in 2017 and have used it ever since. I also find looking at window blinds or escalator stairs strange. I also have a bit of a neck issue on the left side for me I think due to some jaw issues and that also seems to interact with the screen sensitivity.

          Interestingly I recently brought two more 9560's but couldn't use them due to the usual eye strain. This morning I installed ditherig and they seem fine now! I also installed it on my current 9560 and felt a significant relief on my eyes. Thankyou!

          There is actually one difference in that I have the touch display which isn't matte on my XPSs. I wonder what a matte one would be like for me. I haven't downgraded the NVIDIA graphics drivers. I imagine your XPSs have the NVIDIA GTX 1050 that comes with this model of laptop? I have tried to get the older drivers but have struggled to find them. Would you be able to point me in the right direction? If I understand right you have windows 11 and leave the Intel drivers up to date. The only things you are using is Ditherig and old NVIDIA drivers? Do these drivers work with windows 11? I'm currently on Windows 10.

          Really thank you again. I would love to keep in touch and up to date with your journey as it sounds like we have very similar issues. In case it is helpful for watching TV I use an XGIMI HALO projector (not the Halo+) and find it brilliant with the blue light turned down. I have five of them now.

          I have ordered a matte screen protector for an iPhone 11 and will try the same on my other phones. Really appreciate your help.

          Best wishes,

          Kris

            kgharvey Hi @kgharvey - that's very interesting about the similarities in our condition. I also have a clicky jaw - it seems like we are very aligned in what works! I haven't found a glossy screen that I can work with so all my 9560 systems are the FHD 1080p versions with the matte screen.

            The Intel drivers I'm using are very old too actually:

            [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/JoUwnms.png]

            I believe this is them here on my Google Drive.

            The Nvidia drivers I use are here on my Google Drive. You should notice that they're installed because when you change the screen brightness is moves in 'clicks' rather than smoothly fading.

            [upl-image-preview url=https://i.imgur.com/E4M0B3M.png]

            The drivers are working fine in Windows 11 on the latest version (you just have to roll back to them after install which takes 2 minutes).

            You should definitely investigate pattern glare as a potential issue for you too - I believe that my problems may stem more from fine, repeating patterns and glossiness than from other issues, but as ever it's difficult to tell.

                @si_edgey you absolute legend. Thank you very much for this. I've included my email in the access request and would be very happy to keep in touch around what works.

                The pattern glare issue is definitely something I am going to look into.

                If anything else comes up that helps I'll let you know.

                10 days later

                si_edgey How do you install those Intel drivers?

                When I try to run setup it says:

                This computer does not meet the minimum requirements for installing the software.

                    20 days later

                    tfouto How do you install those Intel drivers?

                    Did you get it working? Make sure you have the right hardware of course - these are for Intel HD 620 or HD 630.

                    Now that I have a working RTX 3070 / Dell IPS monitor desktop setup I have been starting to feel invincible, and given my previous excellent experience with the Omen 15 gaming laptop (RTX 2070 with iGPU disabled, see above), I went ahead and bought an Omen 16 wf1001na yesterday:

                    CPU: i7 14700HX
                    GPU: RTX 4070
                    Display: BOE 165Hz, 1920x1080, IPS

                    Before even booting it I switched to discrete GPU only in the BIOS, booted up and checked device manager - only the RTX 4070 was showing as outputting to the display, and with my previous Omen 15 the display felt flat, soft, pleasant to look at - almost like paper when I switched to the discrete GPU only.

                    Well, not this one.

                    It is so unpleasant to look at, the whites feel so bright, text won't stay still - it just makes me want to look away. I had to stop after 30 minutes of use and today the familiar migraine is back. This is probably the worst reaction I've had in a few years and it feels like a reality check that the issue is still very real for me.

                    The panel is a BOE0B81, here's the HWInfo for the computer.

                    Luckily there's a great returns policy.

                      4 days later

                      I'm glad there is a returns policy @si_edgey !

                      I am having the same issue as @tfouto. The NVIDIA driver installs fine but the intel one gives me the same error message 'This computer does not meet the minimum requirements for installing the software'. I'll keep looking into it.

                      I tried the phone matt cover you suggested and it helps.

                      Cheers,

                      K

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