AgentX20 Can I just echo some earlier sentiments above that so far the MS Edge browser has been much better than any current Chrome or Firefox version that I've tried. ('Touch wood')

I've been using it exclusively for at least a month now, and it really is more comfortable (and hard to explain why!). I would suggest everybody here try it at least for testing purposes.

Comparing the latest Chromium build to Edge (viewing the same web page side by side); Chromium uses the same default fonts as Edge, but there is a slight difference in the appearance. Maybe Edge is using some old IE rendering or something proprietary...

    17 days later

    Shasm Sadly I’ve yet to find a MacOS device that I can use comfortably for more than 30 minutes. We’re hoping for a breakthrough soon though (see the OSX dithering thread).

      Dithing isn't an issue with me but I think I recall using the Cinnamon shell of Linux Mint, it has a control panel display setting where you can change the dithering type or just turn it off.

      Comparing the latest Chromium build to Edge (viewing the same web page side by side); Chromium uses the same default fonts as Edge, but there is a slight difference in the appearance. Maybe Edge is using some old IE rendering or something proprietary...

      While I will reiterate my motto of "if it works for you, great, keep doing it" that's hard to make sense of. any Chromium based browser is going to be the same no matter what the wrapper around it is. It;s the exact same rendering engine, that's the whole point of Chroimum is one identical rendering engine so no matter what browser you are using with it, devs only need to code to one standard

      I find old versions of Firefox to be the best for my eyes, and chrome to come in second. I have to pick a new theme since the default one has the light grays that kill my eyes.

      • diop replied to this.

        ensete While I will reiterate my motto of "if it works for you, great, keep doing it" that's hard to make sense of. any Chromium based browser is going to be the same no matter what the wrapper around it is. It;s the exact same rendering engine, that's the whole point of Chroimum is one identical rendering engine so no matter what browser you are using with it, devs only need to code to one standard

        I don't think MS would simply use a vanilla chromium browser and put a new skin on top (although I wouldn't put it past them either!). Have you tried Edge and noticed any difference?

        Maybe they used an older version of chromium as a starting point, and put in their own rendering on-top. It wouldn't surprise me if chromium Edge has some IE underpinnings.

            diop I don't think MS would simply use a vanilla chromium browser and put a new skin on top (although I wouldn't put it past them either!).

            That's exactly what they (and every other Chromium browser) does.

            It wouldn't surprise me if chromium Edge has some IE underpinnings.

            The whole point of adopting Chromium is to get out of the rendering business. If they were going to bother modifying Chromium, they would just keep their own engine.

            It's just like Android and MIUI.

              Hey guys,

              I've had awful eye strain for over 20 years now, 60hz makes me ill, within 30 mins.....I can even feel the low refresh rate, as soon as I increased to 85hz it helped instantly. Now I'm on 144hz VA panel, but I feel that IPS is the way to go. I have a laptop on the way also, a gaming one, mainly for work but I bought it because its 300hz, 100% sRGB, IPS (No pwm)....and min 8 bit panel, I read all factors to help, preying thats the solution so I can learn to code!

                wipe0wt Good luck with your purchase - what laptop make and model is it out of interest? This thread is primarily dealing with temporal dithering which might be something else to look at if you're having problems with your new machine.

                Fingers crossed it works out for you. 🤞

                    si_edgey I've gone for the 300hz Alienware M15 r3, I'm hoping there is no temporal differing or PWN on this particular model. Is there a way to find this out at all and can dithering be removed from an nvidia desktop out of interest?

                    Are there screens that just dont have dithering full stop? I read that 10bit panels seem to avoid but unsure, id happily go buy whatever helps tbh! Cheers

                      wipe0wt You notice 60hz doing web surfacing and office work?
                      Also, what makes you feel IPS better than VA for your needs?

                          si_edgey Would you say a higher refresh rate reduces your sensitivity to temporal dithering even when doing basic web browsing?

                              K-Moss Personally I’ve never found refresh rate to have any impact, although I’m mainly using laptops so have limited options in that regard.

                              On my desktop machines, I’m still using 2x Benq CCFL screens but although I used these for years from 2006 - 2012 without a single headache, they will still trigger a migraine quickly if plugged into ‘bad’ hardware.

                                  si_edgey I’m still using 2x Benq CCFL screens but although I used these for years from 2006 - 2012 without a single headache, they will still trigger a migraine quickly if plugged into ‘bad’ hardware.

                                  Same here re CCFL screens.

                                    a month later

                                    K-Moss I can visibly see 60hz, can’t explain why but I know instantly if it’s low refresh. So most screens seem to dither a lot too, in fact I’ve just bought w new monitor and it was 8+2 £1500 LG 38GL950G and my eyes are bleeding, gutted really, the dithering only engages when hdr is switched on, like most monitors. Incidentally though I’ve crazy gamed on my LGC9 with hdr on but it has no FRC there and I’ve had zero issues but I am sat a distance away.....I’ve 3 weeks to sort out before I send it back.

                                      7 days later

                                      I have edited the original post with a hugely significant update to my setup. This is a 100% working setup for me, I have been testing it for months. I can now play games (and do so much more on my laptop) for the first time in 8 years.

                                      Hope it helps somebody. 😀

                                      si_edgey Huge update here.

                                      Since moving to Windows 10 v2004 (May 2020 update) there has been a massive improvement in my symptoms. Now, as long as I use old Intel drivers and ditherig.exe (still not sure if this does anything but can't change it now!) then I can use my machine without disabling the graphics drivers.

                                      This has changed my life as I can now play games, do video editing, use the HDMI output, and have the power saving features of the laptop (battery lasts about 400% longer!). It's the first time in 8 years I've been able to do these things, ever since getting my first Macbook in January 2012 and discovering my temporal dithering sensitivity and my ability to have non-stop migraines..

                                      To confirm, my 100% working setup (been testing for months now):

                                      Laptop: Dell XPS 9560, with 1080p FHD matte screen
                                      Windows Version: Windows 10 version 2004 (this is very important)

                                      Intel HD 630 driver version: 21.20.16.4475 (from 2016, more recent drivers cause symptoms)
                                      Nvidia driver version: 26.21.14.4614 (latest)

                                      Additional Software: Ditherig v1.11 with all dithering disabled, Windows Update Blocker: https://www.sordum.org/9470/windows-update-blocker-v1-5/

                                      After finding this solution, I tried buying some modern laptops but it would seem that all Intel UHD drivers (anything from 8th generation processors onwards) cause me symptoms. So right now the most recent processor I can use is Intel 7th generation with the 2016 drivers.

                                          si_edgey Thanks for the update!

                                          I have recently been given a laptop which was no longer needed (Acer Aspire V3-771) and have since upgraded it with an SSD and 16GB memory. I'm running the latest W8.1 which I know is good for a few years. I also have made sure to note down VBIOS/BIOS versions, drivers in use, what Windows updates etc etc to ensure I can rollback in the future if needbe. For a home setup, I'm pretty much covered for the next 5 years. My suggestion to others out there is, if you don't absolutely need discrete graphics, try to pick up a used Ivy Bridge laptop or similar gen, downgrade the BIOS if possible to the earliest version, and upgrade SSD and RAM, it will hopefully be comfortable to use and you should get a few more years from 8.1.

                                          This doesn't solve the initial problems, though. I still find it troublesome that a driver update or simply using a particular device causes symptoms. I do believe it simply is a toggle ON>OFF somewhere in the BIOS/Drivers to sort this out. We still need to pressurise Intel et al to offer a solution (either via CLI or some hidden easter egg, it doesn't have to be in the main software suite).

                                            si_edgey if it’s a dithering issue then why not buy a monitor that doesn’t dither? If not looked into this fully but not sure if it’s to do with dithering although my new monitor is making me feel really sick at the moment within like 10 minutes! LG 38GL950G

                                                JTL my old benq XL2420Te had dithering 6+2 bit but i was miles better with this monitor than my current one 😩😩😩.....I’m ready to send it back, £1500 for nothing! No idea what’s wrong, I’ve gone from a desktop pc to a laptop and the new monitor, I had no issues using the ips screen on the laptop so thought the monitor was the way to go! (LG 38GL950G)

                                                  wipe0wt I still can't say with 100% certainty that temporal dithering is the cause, it's just the best guess at this time. 8 years in and still not 100% on the cause of this illness.

                                                  But I have 2x CCFL Benq monitors that I can use all day long on a good machine (I used to do games programming for 12 hours per day at uni on them!) but plug them into a Macbook and I start getting sick within 30 minutes. For my condition, the monitor is not as important as the source - I've not changed monitors in 10 years for work or play.

                                                  You never know, if you plug your monitor into a 'good' source then you might be able to use it all day long. That's the difficulty with this condition. Either way, get that monitor sent back asap - no point in wasting that kind of money.

                                                      weirdly, I'm getting the feeling like I used to do when working on 60hz screens.........but without the obvious flickering I used to be able to pick up. I've a humidifier on the way today....

                                                      dev