I know some of you have tried prismatic lenses. I remember reading that some of you just went with the lenses, others combined lenses and eye exercises of various sort including with loose prisms. Could you please drop two lines and say if glasses with prismatic lenses solved your problems, helped a little or made no difference at all? Cheers.

Glasses with Prismatic Lenses

logixoul

AGI Glasses with prismatic lenses doubled the time I could spend on a screen (from 45min to 1h30min). They gave me no adverse effects either.

AGI

logixoul Thanks heaps. Is there a specific symptom that subsided, e.g., muscle twitching, neck pain, eye jumping when reading?

logixoul

AGI My main eyestrain symptom is a persistent left-eye muscle spasm (or more correctly: "spasticity") that gets worse and worse the more I use a screen in a given day. It starts at say 10% when I wake up. Then when I start using my PC/phone, it goes from 10% to 70% in the space of about 1h30min, and then it's important that I stop all screens (i.e. let my eyes rest) for the rest of the day, to stop that "70%" spasticity from becoming permanent.

Before I got my prismatic glasses, the above was also true, except the "1h30min" figure was more like 45min.

AGI

logixoul Thanks. With "becoming permanent" do you mean that if you stop at 70% damage, you can start from scratch the next day, otherwise your symptom will be still there after a night of sleep?

Can you please remind me the reason why you were prescribed prismatic lenses? Do you use your glasses for any close-up activity? Does your principal symptom start even if you read extensively on paper or is it only triggered by electronics? Sorry for the many questions!

logixoul

AGI Thanks. With "becoming permanent" do you mean that if you stop at 70% damage, you can start from scratch the next day, otherwise your symptom will be still there after a night of sleep?

Yes.

Also I forgot to add that if I stop at 70% damage, I still need to take 100mg of chelated magnesium right after that - in order to remove the spasm (tenseness). If I don't, then the next day I won't start at "10% damage" - I'll start at "25% damage". And so on.

AGI Can you please remind me the reason why you were prescribed prismatic lenses?

I have latent strabismus (aka heterophoria). Basically I read on ledstrain.org that heterophoria can cause screenstrain, so I found a well-qualified (and well-equipped) optometrist in my area, went to him and asked to be checked for heterophoria. He examined me and said "yes, you have exophoria". So I asked him to sell me prism glasses (like @martin did).

AGI Do you use your glasses for any close-up activity?

I use them for all activity (except when doing body exercises or bathing etc).

AGI Does your principal symptom start even if you read extensively on paper or is it only triggered by electronics?

Only by electronics.

AGI Sorry for the many questions!

It's okay; keep 'em coming. Happy to help!

CrestfallDreaming

On a side note i personally really want to try neurolens but they Are only in then us and i am Europe based. So i wrote to Them and thry Said thry Are looking to move to european market. She wouldnt give me a timeline though

AGI

logixoul Thanks.

logixoul I still need to take 100mg of chelated magnesium

Is this a "trick" of yours or were you prescribed a specific product by a specialist?

logixoul I use them for all activity

So you have a phoria both at near and at distance?

logixoul Only by electronics.

This is what I did not want to hear. Hard to imagine these days, but do you think you could get away without glasses and trouble if you only had to read on paper? I mentioned to the specialist that I have simultaneously had good devices I could use 16 hours a day and bad devices I could not use for a minute, and he looked at me like I was a fruitcake.

Dominic Guys, what does it mean if I see double while wearing prisms?

How long has this been going on for? Perhaps there is phase of adjustment? I cannot comment since I have not yet used prismatic lenses. I have only done exercises with loose prisms. I think you should discuss this with your eye doctor or who prescribed the lenses!

Dominic

Guys, what does it mean if I see double while wearing prisms? I don't mean seeing double all the time, but for example when my laptop is turning on I see the logo doubled. It has never happened without glasses.
Prismatic lenses also makes my vision worse.

logixoul

AGI Is this a "trick" of yours or were you prescribed a specific product by a specialist?

It's a trick of mine.

AGI So you have a phoria both at near and at distance?

Yes. My phoria at near distances is a "different amount" from my phoria at far distances, but I do have phoria at all distances.

AGI do you think you could get away without glasses and trouble if you only had to read on paper?

Definitely. If I didn't have to look at electronics, I'd need none of my eye pills and no special glasses.

AGI

logixoul Thanks again.

logixoul This is really worrisome. Were you diagnosed with heterophoria because you went to the visit in a moment of high visual stress caused by using electronics?

I checked on my medical reports. 18 months ago I was found a mild esophoria at near. After a few weeks of loose prism exercises, I was told that my vision had improved considerably and I had become orthophoric at near as well. Last February after an update that I was forced to run, my laptop became unusable. Since I could not find a way out, I decided to push through, and the situation precipitated. Last week I was found a strong esophoria at near. I was also told that if I keep going, I may have to take a long break from any close-up activity. However, the specialist clearly does not believe that a change of software, hardware or driver can make a difference in the eye condition. What is your doctor's explanation of the fact that you can read on paper easily?

logixoul

@AGI Also check the "Prism lenses reviews" section in the "Problems with human vision" page in our wiki:

https://wiki.ledstrain.org/docs/known-problems/list-vision/#prism-lenses-reviews

logixoul

AGI Were you diagnosed with heterophoria because you went to the visit in a moment of high visual stress caused by using electronics?

I don't think so.

AGI What is your doctor's explanation of the fact that you can read on paper easily?

I've been to around 8 eye specialists (ophthalmologists, strabologists, optometrists, neuroophthalmologists) in the last 2 years. I think none of them was able to give an answer to your question, except that a few of them said screens might be giving me dry eyes. (and thus I got prescribed a variety of artificial tear products).

AGI

logixoul On a "bad" device, if I open a Word template without any letter in it or if I make the wallpaper featureless white and I stare at the screen, I very quickly get symptoms. No need to read or look at dynamic images. That does not happen on physical paper or a good device (not that I have many good devices left) even upon reading small fonts. No specialist has given me a plausible explanation for that.

I believe that now that my eyes are screwed by pushing through on a bad device for months, my "natural" level of heterophoria, that earlier I could compensate for without aid, is not manageable anymore. In fact, my heterophoria parameters last week were much worse than a year ago. However, I fear that the heterophoria is not the origin of my problems.

I guess I have no choice but to test prismatic lenses. I will also look for newer and more challenging visual therapy exercises to try "rectify" my current degree of heterophoria.

logixoul

AGI I guess I have no choice but to test prismatic lenses.

Check this post of mine too.

Btw what are your symptoms?

AGI I will also look for newer and more challenging visual therapy exercises to try "rectify" my current degree of heterophoria.

I suppose you've tried (or at least - read about) all the exercises from @martin's blog?

AGI

logixoul Hey, my apologies for initiating this conversation and dropping off. I have had a number of issues including continuous crashes of my only laptop, wipes off, reinstall of Windows and upgrades of the OS that have really drained me.

I have tried a number of exercises over the years. I began ages ago with pen pushups (to and away from the eyes), jumps between two pens one behind the other at arm distance, and then I added a third long and narrow object circa 1.5 meters away to make a triple jump (pen # 1 to pen # 2 to far-away object). Other pen exercises that I found useful for temporarily relief of my condition consist of holding my head steady and following the pen horizontally, vertically and drawing circles clock and anticlockwise. Then I tried the Tibetan wheel (although I have only -0.25 astigmatism in the left eye, but I guess I was just looking for an extra way to relax my eyes…). Later, I passed onto the Brock string.

Two years ago I commenced visual therapy followed by an orthoptist (two orthoptists, to say it all) and I was assigned more specific exercises which I had described at the two links below.

https://ledstrain.org/d/188-your-health/452

https://ledstrain.org/d/188-your-health/456

However, the last specialist I saw (a neuro-orthoptist) told me that those exercises are not useful and I should eliminate them. In fact, they likely aggravated my condition (excess convergence at near due to esophoria). In his opinion, there is no point improving my convergence because I am already converging too much. I am lost and I am waiting for my orthoptist's appointment for feedback.

ryans

AGI (excess convergence at near due to esophoria). In his opinion, there is no point improving my convergence because I am already converging too much

Pencil push-ups are for exophoria, not esophoria. If you have esophoria, you shouldn't be doing pencil push-ups. A plus add and/or base-out prism may significantly aid your esophoria. You should ask an optometrist about this. Esophoria is the same condition @martin has and writes about in his blog.

AGI

ryans Those were exercises I did at the very start, many years ago, when no one had diagnosed my condition, and not on my own initiative. They were recommended by an eye-doctor and an optometrist.

The other exercises I tried to describe at the links above are more recent and were recommended by two orthoptists, who both judged my esophoria mild and manageable without glasses.

I did see a neuro-optometrist very recently. He is the one who says that prismatic glasses are the only solution and exercises are useless in adulthood. He found my degree of esophoria huge during my first visit but much milder a week later. That could be due to how much I had strained my eyes before going in for my first appointment (computer and horrible new lighting at work)? I do not know.

Now I intend to discuss the optometrist's findings with my orthoptists, as I think exercises are beneficial at any age (last year after a few weeks of loose prism exercises I was considered "cured", namely, orthophoric at near as well). Also, I cannot accept opposite diagnoses / being told that I have been training the wrong way under the guidance of specialists. This has to be clarified. I understand different school of thoughts on how to tackle problems (an optometrist will tend to propose glasses, whereas an orthoptist will encourage to do exercises), but it cannot be pears and apples.

AGI

I received my prismatic lenses. What a dreadful experience.

I tried them on for a minute in the shop and I immediately felt like on a rollercoaster. For hours afterwards, looking at my phone without glasses felt extremely unpleasant. Not a good start, and indeed I kept the glasses in the case for the following week. Then I decided to give them a serious go. I started with wearing them for close-up activity (working on my laptop) for 20-30 minutes. I could sense something going on in my neck and head, and I tried to convince myself that it was part of the adjustment process. Pulled the glasses off, I went for a walk. Horrible vertigo. Enough for the day.

In the next couple of days I wore the glasses pretty much every time I worked on my laptop and even when I used PCs connected to a monitor and at night in bed reading from my phone, a book and my Kindle. Long story short, on day 4 I had developed so much pain in my arms, wrists and legs down to my ankles (can you believe it!) and spams in my face and my arms that I put the glasses in the case and sealed it.

On the same day, I booked an appointment with a new specialist, a behavioral optometrist I had been long keen on seeing, and asked for his opinion. He told me I should not wear those glasses anymore and that prisms are not the answer to my condition.

I will update on how the situation develops. The preliminary plan is to combine vision therapy with simple glasses for close-up work without prisms. Apparently, prisms are not a must to correct esophoria (at least a small degree of convergence excess).