Samsung and Sony QD-OLED TV
Sunspark That is really interesting and the guys at RTings noted several times about the "odd" pixel structure and the blue pixels as opposed to white which I think may be making the difference here. I remember almost squinting when I first turned on the LG G2 way back in 2019 due probably to the white pixels. Really hoping this new tech makes a difference for folks like us!
Sunspark i sacrified myself. The s95b will arrive in 7days. I will share after 7 days of testing.
And it seems the S95B flickers for some reason and they didnt solve the problem yet. It is a software problem. Even looking at the movie of the filmed TV is making my eyes cramp.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/uca1mk/samsung_s95b_flickering_can_anyone_confirm/
Therefore i have paddle back, i wont open the box and give it back as it is. I gladly will try a device that doesnt flicker or has a typical OLED flicker, but this is unacceptable. Already lost a lot of money on flickery Eizo monitors.
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hayder1983 That dynamic flickering seems to be the result of a setting and can apparently be turned off: https://reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/uca1mk/samsung_s95b_flickering_can_anyone_confirm/i7r9wl4?context=3
In general, a lot of patience is required when buying a new TV and trying to find the right settings.
Edit: another solution: https://reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/uca1mk/samsung_s95b_flickering_can_anyone_confirm/iwz0aqr?context=3
KM To turn off peak brightness reduction is a bit of a no go for my eyes. I need a working ABL without flashes/flicker. I think right now i will skip buying a new TV.
From rtings:
The Peak Brightness setting is unique to the Samsung S95B for Samsung TVs. It adjusts the Automatic Brightness Limiter, or ABL, which limits the brightness of the display depending on the content shown, which can be distracting at times. For our testing, we set it to 'High', as this setting delivers the highest peak brightness. This also results in the most aggressive ABL, though, so you should try different settings to find the one that looks best to you. The 'Off' setting effectively disables ABL entirely but results in a much lower peak brightness overall. There's almost no difference between the 'On' and the 'High' setting.
Looks like the perfect solution to me. Less brightness, and no flicker. Win-win for the eyes. But maybe you have requirements that go beyond eye strain, then just ignore my comments.
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KM Tvs now are much brighter than the tvs of previous years, 20 of brightness can be 110 from previous tvs, also it seems that the photodiode that rtings uses is not sensitive enough to detect some high speed pwm and even worse Samsung is the worst regarding eye comfort and care, almost all their display devices are eyes and brains destroyer.
Abeabe my current TV is capped at 400 nits. This is too bright for me. The Samsung goes up to 1400 nits. And they are trying to get even higher.
Greetings all,
Hope everyone who celebrates had a great thanksgiving holiday! I have thrown myself into the fray and purchased a S95B on a Black Friday deal, it will arrive here Wednesday 11/30. I would say I'm on the higher sensitivity side when it comes to screens so if I can manage to get this to work for me eyes, it's quite likely anyone could! The people talking about brightness are correct, and strabismus historically was understood as an aversion or intolerance to bright light. Hippocrates himself described strabismus in his writings. I've had "wondering eye" or strabismus since I was a new born. My mother told me that the doctor saw one of my eyes out of alignment at my two week well check! Based on research I've done related to other chronic illness issues I have, strabismus might be, at least in part, related to genetic SNP's that effect ones ability to "methylate" and consequently detoxify the body. In any case, I will be doing extensive testing on this set in the hopes that I can get it work. Will report back my findings.
Diamondintherough hi there how is your experience with qd oled? Thanks
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Okay I just got the TV (Samsung S95B) this morning so I wanted to share my initial findings with ya'll.
When I first turned on and set up the T.V. I had ZERO symptoms, which is very atypical for me, as the headaches and eye cramping usually start immediately. So that was an exciting and promising thing. I quickly connected my PS5 and once I switched sources I was hit really hard with the typical symptoms of dizziness/vertigo, eye cramping etc. Ironically, it was the TV switching to "game mode" that triggered the symptoms. Took me about 30 mins to get past that symptom trigger. I reset the T.V. to default settings and started over. No symptoms once picture settings were back to default after the reset.
However, when I switched to a source that had HDR capability (Nvidia Shield in my case) I had some symptoms come back. I discovered that T.V. out of the box has all motion software disabled by default, but when an HDR source is detected it turns all that stuff "on." So I went through and switched it all off, and the T.V. was better to look at, but not quite as good as the "out of the box" (SDR?) picture mode. So something is happening with the HDR sources that changes the viewing experience. The T.V. even displays some text explaining that it's switching to a "UHD" mode because it detected that source. Both my shield and my ps5 gave me no symptoms on my previous T.V.
I've only had time to watch one HDR piece of content (Disney+ show) for about an hour with all the motion settings off. I can't say I had ZERO symptoms, but the T.V. was much more tolerable to look at, even compared to other LCD screens I've tried.
My return deadline is not until Jan 31st, so I plan on doing A LOT more testing especially with game mode which should theoretically be better. One thing I noted is that the T.V. got quite a bit brighter in game mode, which may be a part of the issue. But that's all I have for now folks. It's not exactly the dream, but there might be some workable solutions with this set. I'll report back with any significant findings and please sound off if you have found any workaround yourselves. Thanks!
voidv2 okay quick update:
I messed with some settings and was able to get game mode to a far better place. However, one lingering issue is that I am still having residual dizziness side effects when gaming OR watching HDR content. It's quite subtle but it's there and if I am going to keep the T.V. I need that to not be the case.
Does anyone have any tips on settings I can change that have worked on other TV's that might help with the dizziness. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I tried the "eye comfort" mode, but that inexplicably turned on a whole bunch of motion settings and just didn't really work overall. Another confounding factor I need to work out is that I have been taking Advil almost daily because I am fighting a pretty gnarly sinus infection. My hope is that the anti-inflammatory and pain relieving properties are not obscuring other side effects of the T.V. I will keep you all updated ofc once I am no longer taking Advil consistently.
Disabling each and every "picture improvement" setting (including HDR both on the TV and the input devices) to get the most neutral picture possible would be my priority. Dizziness while gaming could depend on the game. Some games are not playable for me even on otherwise known-good hardware. Motion sickness can cause dizziness, but perhaps you can rule that out. The Fauser LiFli flicker detection device due to its acoustic feedback helped me to identify flicker that I would otherwise not have spotted on my backlit TV: flicker during black screen content, that happens during ads, when switching inputs, in between input resolution changes or short breaks in movies or black loading screens in games. I doubt this specific issue would happen on an OLED screen, but who knows. Those bursts of flicker are short, but if you know when to look, it should be recordable with cheaper oscilloscope setups, too. Contrast enhancing features can cause dynamic flicker during certain scene content. Any "automatic" contrast or brightness setting is prone to using flicker. Some form of flicker detection equipment always comes in handy. In particular for finding the exact brightness value that causes PWM to kick in. Try to avoid that by not setting the brightness too low.
Another thing is disabling the TV's status LED and other connected devices' LEDs if possible. They can flicker, too. Or gamepads that have built-in LEDs. The PS4 gamepads definitely flicker. Probably same with PS5 and maybe other gaming hardware. It helps if you know the devices you use to play games and watch movies are not the cause for the dizziness - e.g. by using them on a known-good TV or monitor.
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KM Hey thanks for this informative and thorough reply. Great idea on Disabling HDR. I think that is the heart of the problem, so I need to figure out how to do that. As I stated in my first post, when I first booted the TV I had no issues until I switched inputs and HDR was enabled. As I stated in my first post when I got the T.V. I had tested all connected devices on my old T.V. (Sony KDL W800c) and none of the devices gave me any dizziness issues. I tested them all for several weeks/years depending on how long I had had the device and no issues. So it's definitely the T.V. Fascinating re; the status LED's, had no idea that could induce symptoms, but again, unlikely in my case as this all started with the new T.V. I'm pretty sure I have disabled all contrast enhancing and brightness enhancing (this was more recently) but I can double check. Good idea re: making sure brightness is also not too low. What's baffling to me is that OLED should not be having these PWM issues, yet it's still quite hard on the eyes of folks like us, but it's unclear what that is about exactly. Very frustrating.
Can you recommend any PWM detecting setups that are $100 or less? I can't exactly drop hundreds of dollars justifiably on more hardware right now.
@Abeabe Definitely not trying to fight with the dizziness but rather make it go away! You are right that it can make you more sensitive to other devices tho, that's been a pain to deal with.
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voidv2 The cheapest method to detect flicker is probably the sound card oscilloscope, which, among more expensive methods, is discussed here: https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide
Here are some S95B settings described by rtings in more detail: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/s95b-oled/settings
I'd really turn anything off, especially BFI (Clear Motion) and other options that manipulate the image or even insert additional frames. Energy saving options may cause flicker, too.
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Update: So I did a lot of tinkering with the TV last night. It was not easy but I managed to figure out how to disable HDR on all of my devices. Not exactly an intuitive or straightforward process. One thing to note for folks in this forum, you cannot disable HDR for the PS5 from the Samsung TV menus. You have to go into your PS5 settings and do it there. Another thing I noticed is that its not just HDR that caused me issues on the PS5. I had to turn off several settings in order to make the system more tolerable to my eyes. These included VRR, "Color Depth Enhancement", and one other one I am not remembering at the moment.
I did more testing this morning (without any Advil or other meds in my system) with all HDR and other settings mentioned here set to "off" and, sadly, I still had some mild eye strain in my dominant eye and later a mild headache. There was some very mild dizziness as well but it resolved rather quickly. However, it was still there, which is a dealbreaker for me if it continues. I may try to mess with some other settings, but I am feeling a bit less hopeful that this T.V. will do the trick.
Something to note abt me is that anytime I get a new screen/device, even if it's the "right" kind of screen or even one I have used before, my eyes go through an adjustment period. For instance, I have an iPhone 8, which took a little adjustment and then worked extremely well for a few years. I then dropped it and had to get a replacement iPhone 8. The "new" device, even after switching off any motion settings, gave me some head pain and dizziness even though its the exact same phone I just had. This also eventually went away. I had a similar experience with my iPad Air which does not have the harsh retina OLED display, which gave me headaches and eye strain if I used it during the day (but not at night). With more consistent daytime use, these symptoms went away as well.
I can't say I am confident that will happen with this T.V. but I will do some more testing over the next week or so to see if I can make something work. Any further suggestions for things to try would be much appreciated. Thanks!