ShivaWind I am sorry to read that. Its good you figured out how to navigate modern life. However I still believe its a combination of both - tech and health. Otherwise there is no way how some people can use the devices I cannot without problems. Its simply "bad" tech combined with some health/body difference compared to other people who do not have the issue. Looking for a thing that answers both questions at the same time:

What is different with modern tech compared to the old one I can use? (pwm, dithering, blue light...)
What is different with me compared to other people who do not have this issue? (eyes, brain, sensitivity...)

Can help find solution to the problem I believe. I wrote down a list of things Im going to go through one by one, until I either run out of ideas or find the common denominator. It will require some medical testing, and also tech testing with advanced tech that I might need to visit some university or work places to use.

Also the common denominator might be different for everyone, so I do not think we can find a universal answer here, although it would be nice. Im afraid everyone will have to find that common denominator for themselves.

    ensete I understand. But I think if the doctors do not know what to look for exactly, they are as good as blind no matter how much money their technology cost. We have different health system here and my friend who is a doctor suggested she could perform some scans on me. However said that since she has no idea what to look for, the radiation Id get during that exam is not worth it.

      Individual alpha peak frequency predicts 10 Hz flicker effects on selective attention
      Rasa Gulbinaite, Tara van Viegen, Martijn Wieling, Michael X Cohen and Rufin VanRullen
      Journal of Neuroscience 20 September 2017, 1163-17; DOI: https://doi.org/10.1523/JNEUROSCI.1163-17.2017

      SIGNIFICANCE STATEMENT

      Here we provide novel evidence that the interaction between exogenous rhythmic visual stimulation and endogenous brain rhythms can have frequency-specific behavioral effects. We show that alpha-band (10 Hz) flicker impairs stimulus processing in a selective attention task when the stimulus flicker rate matches individual alpha peak frequency. The effect of sensory flicker on task performance was stronger when selective attention demands were high, and was stronger during stimulus processing and response selection compared to the pre-stimulus anticipatory period. These findings provide novel evidence that frequency-specific sensory flicker affects online attentional processing, and also demonstrate that the correspondence between exogenous and endogenous rhythms is an overlooked prerequisite when testing for frequency-specific cognitive effects of flicker.

      http://jov.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2138193&resultClick=1
      http://jov.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2138193
      http://jov.arvojournals.org/article.aspx?articleid=2139679&resultClick=1
      http://passthrough.fw-notify.net/download/937894/http://eprints.gla.ac.uk/120028/1/120028.pdf

      I imagine 10 Hz flicker would be very jarring, to anyone.

      it looks like 10hz is about as low as you can go and still have it be invisible (see below). There are several other studies that look at the effects in the Gamma band >30hz. I posted that particular study because it pointed out that the frequency needs to be phase matched to the individuals brain rhythm (maybe a reason why others can use the equipment that effects us without issue)

      Critical flicker-fusion frequency as an indicator of human receptive field-like properties.
      Campos EC, Bedell HE.
      Abstract

      A psychophysical function, believed to reflect receptive field-like properties, is described. It is based on the determination of the critical flicker fusion frequency (CFF) of a tiny test target, centered on a round background of fixed luminance, the size of which is varied as the test parameter. Under optimal conditions, the maximal obtained frequency difference is 10 Hz. This function is compared with the so-called sustained-like function, with which it has some common aspects. Additionally, a portion of the flicker-based function apparently derives from a non-sustained-like source.

        Well thats certainly good news! reading these studies with the research objective of altering brain function, mood, and affect via retinal stimulation using oscillating luminescence had me a little concerned. It's good to hear that EFF is >60, that means this would not be possible with a computer monitor without the subject becoming aware of it. The alternative would not be ideal.

        7 days later

        Hey,

        as I told you I've started the special TMJ therapy at my new orthodondist . She is very competent and always tells me about patients with chronically sinusitis, tinnitus and light sensitivity which no ENT or eye doctor can diagnoze and heal.

        However by bringing the lower jaw in the "right" position most of the weird symptoms of many patients of her disappear. Moreover I have to say that her proceeding is out of standard medical science and therefore it makes no sense to go to a standard orthodondist - many doctors told me that everything is ok, but as you know, it isn't.

        She works with a splint called aqualizer which helps the muscles to relax and brings the lower jaw into a better position. With that help she is grinding away some dental enamel which is in the way for the right lower jaw position. Her theory is that some people like me are not able to grind their own teeth right, because of steep canines etc. - also called eyeteeth - think about why this teeth have this name.

        Some more information you can find there.
        http://www.aqualizer.com/html/aqualizer.htm (however I think that there is more and better information at the german website)

          ShivaWind Don't lose hope! Many of us have similar symptoms to the ones you described. Some of us have different triggers though. Some are sensitive to PWM (Pulse-width modulation), some are sensitive to dithering, and some are sensitive to the spike in blue light that LED light is known for.

          I got a company memo this week that they will be replacing the overhead lighting in the office from the familiar fluorescent tubes to indirect LED light. I knew it was only going to be a matter of time. It feels like I'm surrounded by a pack of wolves when it comes to this offensive technology that is slowly encroaching upon me. I can only exist in my little bubble for so long. Perhaps I'll have to negotiate a work-from-home solution, where I can control my own environment.

              Jerry try using Page Up and Page Down and carefully time some slow eye blinking during the transitions. Also, consider seeing a vestibular physiotherapist.

                  13 days later

                  MagnuM Indirect LED lighting might not be as bad. It is being reflected off another surface, which will only bounce off certain parts of the spectrum. I have experienced inderect / reflected LED lighting tha has NOT caused me pain in many places (it seems to be very common in some office spaces) but it is highly color temp dependant

                    4 days later

                    Haven't come here for a while. Nice to see more discussions.

                    ShivaWind did Dasung Paperlike work for you? In another post, you mentioned something related to mouse pointer that bothers you. Other than that, does Dasung Paperlike work completely fine for you? No headaches? I am considering to buy one of those. I have been dreaming of having such a monitor a while ago. Finally, someone made it available in the market.

                    TechSensitive Thanks for the suggestion.

                        i LOVE my Dasung Paperlike Pros. I bought one at first because the purchase strait from China seemed dicey, but it arived and was of good quality, so I purchased a second one. The visual performance was way better than I was expecting. There is always very slight ghosting, but it gets erased by scrolling or refreshing during just normal use. there is a blink button that gets rid of all ghosting if the background gets muddy. I find myself pressing the blink every half hour or so. I have heard that others have had driver instability issues, but I never used any device specific drivers and mine have never had any issue of any kind after 4 months of ownership. The mouse thing I commented on is not really an issue. the Dasung has a slow refresh rate so you can see the dithering that comes through the video signal (my assumption). it kind of pissed me off how may things are a swarm of dithering, but when using the dasung it does not cause eye strain, rather, it lets you see where dithering is happening (all over the place). if you look closely at the icon that looks like a folder in windows for example there are moving dots about 0.5 millimeter in diameter moving around. this is not true of everything, only certain images. there are other images that only dither when the mouse moves. for example, the grey box at the very bottom of the vmware community page https://communities.vmware.com/welcome. it is a static gradient approximation pattern that moves with mouse movement but is otherwise static. I will upload a video at some point to better illustrate what I am seeing, but I do not have a camera. Short story, Yes for me the Dasung has been a solution to my problem. I would love to have color and bigger screen, but for me it seems like the only option. I think my symptoms may be at the high end of the severity scale. it seems like I have become increasingly sensitized over time. I cant really use any light emitting screens that I have access to. I am going to purchase a CRT to see if that is usable as a source of color when needed.

                          ShivaWind I will upload a video at some point to better illustrate what I am seeing, but I do not have a camera

                          Please do

                              ShivaWind This is great information! Very exciting! I believe I am also on the high end of the severity scale. I cannot look at any screens without a blublocker clip-on. Even with the blublocker, I still get severe symptoms on many screens. For some, I can tolerate. It is highly likely the Dasung Paperlike can solve my problem since it is a solution for you. Thanks for sharing the information. I will place an order right now and I will report back once I have testing results.

                                Glad to see e-ink is a safe display choice. It also plays into my color theory, that Dasung only displays blacks and whites, so if color was a problem it would not be apparent.

                                Shivawind, does it have a backlight?

                                  JTL
                                  So I can't say anything definitively yet, but I do have significant evidence that what I am seeing is in the video signal and not due to the panel. I was watching this utube video https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dreamweaver&t=hf&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=ORV1HOSgv2Q and noticed that the "dithering" I see on the Dasung panel was also in the video. to describe it, imagine textures to be represented by a temporally static combination of wavy filaments and dots about 1-3 pixels in width that move with relative intensity to their proximity to the mouse cursor. Well, I noticed the "Dithering" --(maybe not the correct term here) in the white parts of the video following the mouse in the video not my mouse. I plugged in an old LCD and moved the video to that monitor, and could not see any dithering. Moved it back to the Dasung and the dithering was there. So there is strong evidence that there is some source of dithering on Max,Linux, and windows 8-10 that is present in the video signal regardless of hardware. My previous known good configuration was ATI graphics connected to 4k flicker-free 8bit benq with each head running through an HD PVR Rocket set to 23 and 25 hz refresh. on windows 8.1 deleting the monitor-device in device manager then setting the generic monitor device to disabled. then keeping some portion of webkit enabled active windows on each monitor so they would get conflicting clock edges. I cant say if my condition has progressed or if some update has rendered this no longer usable, but it seems like the no-light Dasungs are my only option now. I can say that the "dithring" I see on those is not eliminated by the DP_DisableDither reg entry with ati or by Ditherig.exe on Intel. It is present in differing levels on Linux and windows, but there in both. it comes in 2 varieties, always moving, and only moving with the mouse. The PVR rocket seems to act as a partial low-pass filter and reduces but does not eliminate the degree of "dithering". This is also true of virtual machines. At this point my observations have been casual, I will do a rigorous and scientific analysis when I have a better Idea of what I am looking for. I am not even sure if the “Dithering” I see is what makes me sick. After 10 years, the symptoms have gotten more severe and the brunt happens the next day so I am a little gun shy of using myself as a lab rat.

                                  I know I owe a video, but I am such a PITA anti-smartphone guy that I have to eat crow in order to ask a friend to use theirs.

                                      dev