9thfloorprod

Hi, and welcome to ledstrain. Many users on this forum have discovered that with one eye covered they can use the device. Have you tried that?

      mike Hi Mike, thanks for the welcome, good to be here and see all the sharing of ideas and solutions amongst those of us affected by this. I will give the one eye a go but it seems sadly a bit impractical for continued use for my case anyway.

          Mrak0020 Hey! I tried OLED saver and found it hard to tell if it helped really. Also I really did not like the permissions you had to give that app so wasn't happy using it. I have tried using the phone on high brightness and maybe it was a bit better, but I still have the same issue of finding it hard to focus and concentrate on the display. It still just felt very "in your face" for want of a better term.

              9thfloorprod I will give the one eye a go but it seems sadly a bit impractical for continued use for my case anyway.

              First of all it’s to see if you have the same problem as many others on the forum. Second is so you can help other on the forum in the future with what you find for solution. Third, training with covering one eye has done so now I can use all screens with both eyes.

                9thfloorprod I see. As far as pwm is the most obvious and prominent problem with amoleds i would try to double check and triple check the pwm.
                You might try ips phones like iphone 11. I found out that my symptoms escalated so fast that in a week I could define a problematic phone at the mall immediately.

                If it is not pwm, you could try binocular vision findings from the forum, like patching one eye.

                If neither, you could be affected by something similar to my problem.
                It is described here https://ledstrain.org/d/1320-lightversion-problem/17
                If you do not mind reading google translated texts, there's a link in that thread to my research in russian. It covers and describes all the basic tests for different issues with phones.

                  9thfloorprod unfortunately, i haven't found the solution yet. Nor do I know how to define problematic screens unless I look at them.

                    14 days later

                    Hello, my name is Diego and I'm from Argentina. I registered in 2020 in the forum but i stayed for 2 weeks at most. I returned only recently after my old cellphone stopped working, so i'm struggling again to find an usable smartphone.

                    My problem started last year when i decided to buy a new smartphone (Xiaomi Redmi Note 9S). At first, I was unsure about what was causing me the eyestrain and headaches, but fortunately i pinpointed the cause sooner rather than later and returned inmediately to my old Samsung A5. The symptoms are only mild if i see the Redmi for about 10-15 minutes, but the longer i keep staring at the screen the more serious they get, and also the recovery time is longer. What i also find weird (or at least it's a feeling i have), i don't seem to recover afternight from sleeping, but rather during the day (of course, always trying not to use the phone).

                    I tried two other phones: Samsung A51 and the Galaxy S7 Edge. Both are unusable for me, but the A51 gave me the worst kind of headache and eyestrain i felt to this day while using an electronic device.

                    Same as other users in the forum, i believe our problems started with some new kind of technology in the new generation of smartphones, starting around 2017 approximately. I always see this discussions about OLED displays being worse than IPS but i don't think the real issue is there. My old Samsung A5 uses AMOLED technology and i never had any problem with it, while the Note 9S which is IPS is the reason I'm here. The Samsung A51 is also AMOLED like the A5 but it's even worse than the Redmi. So clearly the problem is some other thing rather than the display being OLED or IPS.

                    I never had any problems with TVs or computer monitors.

                      DiegoRojo i don't seem to recover afternight from sleeping

                      Diego, welcome!

                      Phone damages conjunctiva and/or cornea. Either directly or by affecting an eye in such a way that the eye later damages those tissues.
                      Both conjunctiva and cornea require tears to heal. During nights humans do not produce much tears. Nor do we blink to redistribute tears. During daytime we produce tears, we blink and conjunctiva and cornea both heal faster. Dry conjunctiva and cornea would rather inflame during nighttime, instead of healing. Just like with a dry eye syndrome. So an eye could become red in the morning and more light-sensitive. Conjunctiva and cornea are very tender, eyelids can easily scratch them when dry.
                      I wonder how exactly phone manages to make this damage. I noticed a little blood vessels on my conjunctiva appear in five second when looking at the screen.
                      The good thing is that both conjunctiva and cornea heal fast.

                      Diego, I suppose you speak more languages than English; do you know any big forums or places or threads where people discuss this specific topic? There are tech forums in Russian, where people discuss this problem in specific threads. Maybe you know something similar? I would scavenge every source for information and clues if there were, well, sources.

                      P.S. I am from Ukraine 🙂

                          I want to updated my initial post:

                          Usable device:

                          • Dell Latitude E5550 (no with W10 1909/2004)
                          • Dell Latitude E5590 (with W10 1809)
                          • LG B8 (with PS4, chromecast and switch)
                          • Switch with it's own display
                          • My desktop PC: AMD RX480 + Alienware AW2518HF (25" FULL HD, TN 240HZ)
                          • Ipad Air 2
                          • Iphone X
                          • Pixel 4A

                          Not usable device:

                          • Dell latitude 7420
                          • DELL vostro 15 5568
                          • LG 27UD68 4K 27" IPS LED
                          • AOC I2481FXH
                          • Ipad Pro 10,5"
                          • MBA 2018
                          • MBP 16" 2019

                          During this time I have found that updating windows can render the device unusable.

                          Both my Desktop and my work notebook (latitude E5550) were unusable to me with the 1909 and 2004. I am now using the 21H1 with my desktop and the 1809 in the notebook.

                          Unfortunately my company was bought by a multinational and i will no longer be able to use dell 5550 with W10 1809. They gave me a latitude 7420 with w10 enterprise 21H1 but i can't use it. I can't install dithering.exe, change GPU drivers etc .. It will be tough!

                          Mrak0020 Hello Mrak, yes I speak spanish but i'm sorry to say I haven't found anything helpful yet. I don't think there is even more information outside this forum and a couple more, some scattered Reddit threads and some Youtube videos. This is leading me to believe that we are a tiny statistic, probably less than 1% of the population.

                              DiegoRojo Oh I see 🙁
                              Thank you.
                              I am not sure about statistics, it could be just some specifics of how people discuss this problem in internet...
                              My ophthalmologist said immediately that she has other patients like me, when I described symptoms.

                              @DiegoRojo
                              I feel like those complaints are just scattered through the internet in English. Something like this comment about a monitor:
                              https://libredd.it/r/Monitors/comments/pmmt2l/trying_to_reduce_eye_strain_and_headaches_from/
                              It says: "I read about (some other monitor) having PWM flicker and decided to upgrade to a monitor that is supposedly PWM free (LG 27UL850-W). But now that I have the LG I still get bad eye-strain and headaches from looking at the monitor even just for a few minutes. It feels like the colors, especially the white color pierce through my eyes even at lowest brightness if that makes any sense. "
                              These symptoms make so much sense to me.

                                  Mrak0020 It is the same for me, adjusting brightness hasn't modified the equation in a significant way for me. I'm not even sure OLED Saver is helping in some way. Maybe it is, but in a very mild way.
                                  I even bought a while back some prescription lenses with a very fine adjustment for relaxing my eyesight, with blue light filter. They don't help with this issue.

                                      DiegoRojo I did that too, every thing you mentioned, and much much more (uv blocking medical googles, every anti-blue lenses, every possible image and every subpixel color tested, every possible barrier used: every glass, film, transparent and half-transparent thing, including oil; a single pixel image tested; every phone in the malls tested etc. etc. etc.). It goes trough everything.

                                      My best scientific suggestions at this time are:

                                      • an exorcist
                                      • a silver bullet
                                      • a holy water (if it has any water protection, leave it underwater for a day)
                                      • pack it and give as a birthday present for your mortal enemy
                                        I am not sure if I am joking.

                                      There might be some sort of laser...ish effect (not an actual laser, but some quality of light that resembles laser enough to irritate a retina and start some chain of reflexes in the eye that result in damage).
                                      There also could be something damaging in spectrum, visible or invisible, that I am missing right now.
                                      Those are two best ideas at this time. The best way to find out is to tear more screens apart and look inside.

                                        6 days later

                                        Hi, sorry for my bad english...

                                        My name is Manuel, an 25 year old man from Venezuela. I discovered this forum some weeks ago, its fascinating the amount of information right here 👍🏻

                                        Right now i am not so sure if pc/phones screens damaged my eyes or if my eyes are damaged for any other reason, but right now i cant enjoy using technology like years before.

                                        I will try to make this post as short as possible, the thing is:

                                        • I didnt experience nothing weird with my eyes until i was like... 14 years old in 2010 (i was able to use any type of screen without problem until then)

                                        • From 2010 i started developing light sensitivity / photophobia, it wasn't a problem for me at the beginning....but then it started becoming really hard to go outside on sunny days, then since 2016 the sensitivity expanded to phones and tv screens, and i dont only mean brightness...i also cant tolerate certain colors in certain situations, like if some colors are disgusting to my brain depending of the day, also started getting eyestrain easily than before.

                                        So since 2010 i was diagnosed with....

                                        • Photophobia (literally "photophobia" without an explanation behind)

                                        • "You have nothing... just blink more"

                                        • Dry eyes

                                        • You just need glasses (i got one....and still had eyestrain lol)

                                        • Myopia and astigmatism

                                        • ASD (Asperger in 2011..)

                                        And more recently..in 2018...after like 4 or 5 ophthalmologists (and without counting my last psychiatrist) i was diagnosed with "Retinitis" .

                                        I have my doubts about the last 2 (ASD and retinitis) for many reasons...including that aside from photophobia i dont any other symptom from Retinitis, then my doubts about ASD are more complex to explain and i dont want to make the post longer.

                                        What i know for sure right now is that i am sensitive to pwm flickering, and yes...i know there are other eyestrain factors but i am 100% sure pwm is a big one for me, i had used phones with and without pwm in the past and the difference is HUGE for me (like...getting extreme headache + burning sensation after 5 minutes using an low frecuency pwm phone vs getting eyestrain after 2 hours using an pwm free phone)

                                        But off course, now there is the "colors problem" since 2016, i dont know if it is psychological (my mood) , my brain, my retina or what....but now there are 2 scenarios when i watch an phone/tv screen (depends on the screen off course)

                                        A) i have eyestrain quickly

                                        B) i dont have eyestrain for a couple of hours if its pwm free...but i cant "enjoy" certain colors (its hard to explain)

                                        Every new year is becoming more and more rare to experience the last scenario...the C) option : 0 eyestrain and 0 "color fatigue", so maybe in some years i will not be able to enjoy anything. Idk for sure.

                                        Right now i am using an Motorola One Fusion -the standard model...not the plus one-...maybe the most eye friendly phone i ever had, its much better than my old s3 mini for example (i never liked how amoled displays looked to begin with) and much better than other lcd phones that uses pwm and gives me eyestrain, but still far from perfect....also i still dont find an phone that has "colors" i enjoy at 100%.

                                        Right now I have to live like an vampire 😁, if go outside i get an instant "extreme" burning sensation that last for days, if i stay inside my house i cant turn the lights on because it gives me eyestrain, if i let the sun go inside the house it gets worse....etc etc. I live more hours with headaches / migraine than without them, Its pretty horrible.

                                        I am considering changing my fusion for another phone (not because of the screen...but for the weight, my fusion weights like an stone) right now the only 2 alternatives in my city without PWM are the realme 8 5g and the realme x50 5g (but i am not too sure about the last one, even if it is much better than the 8 5g i dont like not having the 3.5 jack...)

                                        Like i said before, i know there are other eyestrain factors (and even more in my case) but what i know for sure is that if i buy a new phone it has to be at least pwm free....i know it wont be perfect (i guess the color problem is here to stay) but i guess it wont be worst than my fusion.

                                          nikomanuel96 Hola Manuel, I'm sorry you're going through this. Did the doctors tell you any cause for the photophobia, or recommend any treatment for it?
                                          I'm still searching for a new phone to replace my Redmi Note 9S. You say the Moto One Fusion doesn't give you any eyestrain? It's good to know, and it's curious because it's a relatively new smartphone. Maybe this can help other people who is still searching, in my case I'm going to try first looking for some very low budget smartphone 😁.
                                          Right now, I'm considering between the Samsung A03/Motorola E7/Motorola G20. You probably know Mercadolibre (for people outside Latin America, it's a platform like Amazon). The good thing about buying there is that you have the option to return it if it doesn't suit you, 30 days from the moment you buy it. There are also some companies i didn't know about (Quantum [Brazilian], ZTL, Blu) and some others i thought they stopped doing cellphones (Alcatel, Nokia).
                                          One last thing, in the past week i had the chance to test two other cellphones: a Nokia Lumia 930 and a TCL L5. I used them for about 10 minutes and i felt even worse eyestrain than with the Redmi, and both are very old cellphones. So now I'm starting to think this isn't a recent problem. Maybe in the last few years this bad technology became more mainstream, or there are new issues appearing and that is why more people is experiencing eyestrain and headaches (most complaints i found on Internet are for iPhone 12 & 13)

                                              DiegoRojo Not really, most doctors dont even know why i have light sensitivity in the first place, others said i just have to use eye drops / vitamins to reduce eye strain and that light sensitivity will also reduce with that (but it didn't work).

                                              And yes, the Motorola One Fusion is maybe the best phone i ever had in this regard....but like i said before it's still not perfect, i still get eye strain using it but its much better than my older phones / family phones. (For example...i wasn't able to use my older phone for more than 5 minutes, now with the fusion i can use for a couple of hours or even more sometimes)

                                              Now going back to the doctors thing, the last one (wich diagnosed me with retinitis) said photophobia is a common symptom....but at the same time it looks like my level of sensitivity is too high / abnormal considering that my retina is still in decent condition ....so there's has to be something more here.

                                              And like i said before i doubt about that diagnosis because i lack any other symptoms of retinitis...so right now i am in a stage where i just dont want to waste more money on doctors, is like nobody knows what i have or what i need exactly.

                                              Good luck with your search! Realme isn't popular over there? There a couple of decent budget phones with lcd that you can test....7i or even 8i.

                                                15 days later

                                                fgrise

                                                Since the beginning of the year and using the old laptop (Dell Precision 5520) I have had no issues, until … a couple weeks ago. I thought I had been exposed to COVID and was worried when I started having some kind of chest pressure. I felt really tired at times too, but that's not a very useful symptom. I went to the ER out of precaution, got checked and they found nothing. Today though, I am having this eye strain with this sort of pressure around the eyes that I recognized as what happened last year with the MacBook Pro 16. Now I am wondering if this is not a repeat of last year's issues, just with some slightly different symptoms at first (this time, I never felt palpitations, just this chest pressure). Conditions are, I suppose, similar to last year. I have been working many more consecutive hours on the laptop instead of being in the lab. Time of the year is about the same, but I am not sure this has any relevance. The only thing is that indirect sunlight is shining through the window and I remembered being bothered by it last year. But this is something I have noticed only since yesterday. How do we explain this progression of symptoms that don't affect the eyes at first (some kind of neurological issue?) I haven't seen any updates to the video drivers, but there has been some Windows updates in the last 2 weeks (I can't deactivate those because of IT). Now on what to do with all this … I am not sure. I still need a new laptop and have been paralyzed at the idea of buying a new one, especially if I can't tell right away if it's going to be a problem. In my case, it looks like it might be dose-related so I guess I need to be more cognizant of this in the future, although this is going to be a pain in my job. Any thoughts/comments appreciated.

                                                Addendum: the other thing that might be happening is that I am working with overhead lighting that is quite apparently flickering (as I have now taken a slow-motion video with my phone). It's not on all the time, though, but again it could be a dose-dependent issue. I need to find some new bulbs but as this is attached to a dimmer (and I am renting, so no way to change this) I am not sure what to buy.

                                                  Hi there. My name is Nicholas, and I´m a led strainer (this is beginning to feel as Anonimous ledstrainers now). I´ve been reading some of your stories to see if I can gain a better understanding of what´s going on with us, and what are you trying to do to overcome it, or a least to be able to live some sort of normal life again.

                                                  I wanted to tell you a little bit about my case, to see if someone has been experiencing the same – one thing about this condition is that it is very tricky, and there appears to be multiple factors at stake, as well as multiple potential triggers. But before that, I wanted to summarize the possible triggers (not causes, I think) of this affection. By reading most of your posts, triggers can include:

                                                  +regarding screens:

                                                  -LED, LCD, and even CRT screens (maybe not all of them, maybe specific types of LCD, maybe OLEDS, an even maybe not LCD screens)

                                                  -PWM flickering

                                                  -Low refresh rate

                                                  - temporal dithering

                                                  -Intel video drivers, other Windows 10 drivers

                                                  -External screen connection technologies (such as HDMI)

                                                  +Regarding other luminic sources

                                                  -Sunlight

                                                  -Reflected sunlight

                                                  -Incandescent light bulbs: old ones, LCD, LED; color temperature

                                                  Am I missing something? I think it would be good to make a list as comprehensive as posible, because it would help people to identify what triggers their simptoms.

                                                  I´m posting this here because… seemed the best place. Maybe we should start a new post to keep updated, so people can easily find out the triggers that might be affecting them. And maybe the post already exists, and I missed it - sorry if that´s the case.

                                                  A will summaryze my own problems in another post, so this is not too long.

                                                  Nicholas

                                                    dev