Well bought the tv yesterday last units 1000 eur. Store does not had stock so about 3-4 days waiting…. This is my second oled tv…the first was a 55” lg B8 a couple of years ago. I had to return it because of eye strain. This time new experience lower size 48” …if it will not work for me well have to return… Wish me luck…. If it proves same outcome probably will try a qd oled next year if a 49-50” is released… Ive been following this master series tv since its launch in mid 2020…. Its a master series and the new version is almost the same just a new xr processor (not sure if it is better for what i saw) and hdmi 2.1 (i only play a little xbox one x) main usage is tv shows and movies， bluray uhd etc. Main Concerns: rgbw pixel structure + dip in brightness every 8ms that i think can be similar to pwm? I justified this buy as proof of concept… if this does not work for me oled is to forget forever! Well fingers crossed…. Also some concern regard burn in but this is secondary…. Advices are welcome 😊😊

raven83 i tried the Sony oled, but it was very bright even on the lowest brightness setting. But i hope you like it 🙂

hayder1983 you tried the 48" model? Thanks

raven83 it maybe a good idea to not use energy saving mode but reduce contrast. There maybe was some flicker with energysaving mode. But it was a short test, i got nausea fast. I seem to have problems with super oversaturated colors.

IMO when testing any new TV, having some flicker detection equipment is essential to identify settings that introduce or turn off additional flicker. Several different flicker detection methods/devices can be found in this thread: https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide

Bought a sony A9s oled tv wish me luck 😜

raven83

hayder1983 The 49A90K is this year model…. mine is last year 2020 / 2021 model i think it has less brightness but yes nausea is a possibility too…. lets see.

Tv should be with me on next friday maybe.

raven83

KM well i am the human flicker tool detection …. 😛 or it works or it does not 😛

raven83

Setup the tv today….

It is the last version: the 49KEA9 - the KE version have some EU energy regulations (whenever i read EU regarding electronic products that did not inspire me confidence…. those brussels burocrats 😛 ah ah )

Still in configs. the contrast is 60 , brightness 5, cinema mode warm color settings ,severall image settings off, for now auto brightness is on.

The image quality is superb. Example Terminator 2 - (remaster) in amazon prime. I have the uhd bluray so it must be even better.

However….. LOL not sure if i will keep it….saw about 1 hour of tv my eye is normal. However i can see some flicker of the tv (only with my eyes) i know it is strange but i can noticed it sometimes.

Also this tv is refered as having good motion….. well not sure about this….

Example: i saw a scene where a small bird in the distance passes trough the screen diagonally. I see the bird the bird disappears an then i saw it again. Like 3 frames of the bird. bird on - bird off -bird off - bird off - bird on.

In my last tv i could see more of the bird or i had that impression at least.

Link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1-Jmq7BLFE

From 5 sec to 7 sec

Saw it again in my monitor and it is fluid. On the sony that sequence looks like a slide show…. but well it is only 2 seconds….

I really like the tv the size is perfect and blends perfectly with my living room the image is superb. The motion is well looks worse than i think but ….all oleds have diferent motion.

For now i notice some small very small diziness but my eyes are OK but only with 1 hour of tv , youtube + hdr scenes + channel zapping.

Will update this post after a couple of days.

Main fear is still have to return due to not adapting - red eye or headache / migraines / dizziness

hayder1983

raven83 perhaps try 4 hours of normal TV. No HDR. If you cant take it, better return it.

KM

You may want to try to turn off all settings that manipulate the image to get the most original, unaltered picture possible. Each and every enhancement should be turned off. I wouldn't try HDR at all when buying a new TV. That feature is the last one I'd try, and only once I'm sure everything the current setup does not introduce eye strain or other symptoms.

The example video itself is wrongly encoded and shows 2 images of the same bird in all frames. It may irritate some of the TV's image manipulation functions.

Edit: and auto brightness - judging from my regular backlit Sony TV experience which likes to activate PWM while it's on auto brightness: definitely off. Not sure how it is implemented with OLED, but unless you have flicker detection equipment: anything auto: better turn it off.

raven83

Well another day trying to dominate the beast 😛

I really love this tv image and sound (motion not very bad but not very good also) Today i experimented the settings according to Rtings. I dont agree with their calibration! Cinema is the best mode overall not Custom…..

I deal better with the tv in cinema with all image processing in OFF.

Brightness 10 - Contrast 55 - Black level 45 - Gamma 0

all image settings, auto brightness and motion on OFF and HDR off Thats the base of my settings. Trying today HDMI Limited (not full) All hdmi enhanced for now ( I see tv with a nvidia shield) I started on cinema and tried custom modes…. reverting today to cinema after feeling worse. No red eyes, (slight diziness and migrain sometimes not always)

One thing: This TV is full of FLICKER - worse than a LG B7 (But i suspect besides flicker there someting more, temporal dither? I dont know).

Still in adaptation! This was second day but if i had to decide today i would return it…. 🙁 but i dont want to Lol

Will make the decision very near christmas.

Ps- soon i will open a new post detailing the several tv models i returned since 2016 🙁 lol and the TVs i use without any problem.

raven83

Day 3 with the A9 ….

Straight to the point - I have no eye strain , no sore eye no red eye ….This surprised me….but… i am having another problem ….some kind of migraines / slight diziness migraines when i stop watching tv.

I suspect of two things:

1 - the motion of this TV (tried motion flow on off custom etc)

2- is a strange theory lol ….. could it be the acustic sound? This tv have no speakers the sound comes from the glass that vibrates in a certain frequency. I even connect it to my surround system and had the tv sound this way a couple of hours but not sure if anything changes so probably a crazy theory.

If this migraines / diziness are temporary ill keep the tv and very happy if not i have to return it 🙁

Could this be only temporary sign of adaptation? To my surprise my eyes are good with this oled but my head no lol this is new to me. With a sony 49XG9005 (Full array system) i got some migraines also but they were very strong this is different….

I am happy with the tv except for this point i am lost…… Help! Any suggestions?

KM

I get slight headaches when there's certain kinds of flicker. I think if there was no flicker but instead the light itself was too aggressive, it'd cause other symptoms like burning eyes, etc. If it's the same for you there may be some flicker left.
Again, turn any feature off that alters the original image. Explore the settings and make sure you have checked and understood them all. You need to start with a neutral picture. You need to have patience for this. Some websites like rtings explain some of the advanced settings. Take your time to study them.

If you really think it could be the sound, you could try using headphones or just watch without sound for a while.

Without flicker detection equipment, I don't think I would have found the settings that make my current TV usable. I would never have known which exact brightness values have the least amount of flicker, for example. Never have found out that switching inputs or resolutions cause a short burst of 20 kHz flicker, ultimately cause those weird small headaches. I doubt you would see 20 kHz on an OLED though. But you get the point. There's settings and behavior one would not expect to introduce flicker.
You could try to further experiment with the brightness setting.

raven83

KM in the evening i put an uhd bluray to test…. Tenet from christopher nolan.

I saw 60% of the movie +- and the i decided to reset all settings and continue in standart and cinema. Wow brightness popped and the movie became visually awesome. I saw the movie better with the default settings than with mine own….and that also makes me understand your post….

Where can i bought a good pwm detector? Can you advice me in this? Thanks

KM

raven83 the information we have gathered is in this thread, from top to bottom: https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide
There are not many ready-made devices available on the market. The Fauser LiFli proved to be very useful to me due to its portability and immediate acoustic feedback, but it is very expensive for what it does so I can't recommend it unless money is not a big issue.

raven83

KM i saw the Fauser LiFli its about 300 euros but it is not conectable to a pc? The info only comes in the green red bar andby sound right? So you bought one and pointed it to the tv，start changing configs until the flicker is low? Your tv is an oled?

Do you think this particular device is the best price relation ? Thank you for your help

Ps- i think construct my device it is not a option for me

hayder1983

raven83 Try to buy something in amazon and send it back after testing it. These things are not magical devices, you can get cheap ones under 100 Euro. Try opple lightmaster G3.

KM

raven83

i saw the Fauser LiFli its about 300 euros but it is not conectable to a pc? The info only comes in the green red bar andby sound right?

It has a mono 3.5 inch audio connector. With a special cable you can connect it to an oscilloscope and use it like a regular sensor. Its sensor is fast and, as depicted in the oscilloscope thread, displays the shape of high frequencies more accurately than the DIY solutions, but can't detect flicker that's about 1% or lower. On the other hand, the DIY sensor is slower but can detect flicker percentages of at least 2 digits after the comma when paired with an 8-bit oscilloscope that has AC mode.

So you bought one and pointed it to the tv，start changing configs until the flicker is low?

Basically, yes. I had bought it to find low-flicker LED bulbs in lighting stores, and now that I already had it, I measured the new TV with it, too. I was surprised when there was a black scene on the TV and the device, which was still active, lying on the table, suddenly started humming. I would have overseen that the TV employed PWM during black scenes otherwise. Something which probably wouldn't happen with OLED TVs though (my TV is a regular backlit one).
The immediate sound feedback really is a helpful feature for fine-tuning settings and brightness.

Do you think this particular device is the best price relation ?

Difficult to say. I think the outstanding feature here is the acoustic feedback, which AFAIK no other device has (only even more expensive ones).

But I also use the DIY sensor (which is like $1 or so). You can assemble it without soldering, if that's your concern. Everything is described in the thread. I would order multiple sensors just in case. They are rather fragile.

I don't know how the Opple compares. If it is accurate and displays the waveform in real-time, then maybe it's enough. The other device mentioned in the forum was the Radex Lupin, but it seems to be very inaccurate, as seen in YouTube videos and customer reviews.

raven83

hayder1983 its about 50 euros…. but does this work on a TV? This gadgets uses is to see if light bulbs have flicker or not….

Also i want to share that my previois TV is a 43" inch sony and this is a 49" inch oled. So bigger tv different tecnhology and same space. My couch is about 4-4.5 metters from the tv and i have a puff in the middle of the room about 2-2,5 metters.

Searched today on the web and lots of people with headaches from oleds lol. For me right now it is not a case of eye strain lol but migraines. I have a constant low level migraine since 3 days lol.

One guy in a forum writed that he had it for 2 weeks and disappeared …..

Other guy keep the tv lol and after 3 months he sold the tv on a loss.

I have until the end of jannuary to make a decision! Will continue to try but probably with huge regret and sorrow 🙁 i will have to return it if things dont change.

Also i dont know what tv model to try next since sony LED 50" i tried last year and is a no go, Sony FALD tried a couple years same result. Oled this is the second! The only thing i can try next year is a 50" QD OLED (has to be 48-50 max) if indeed a 50" qd oled will be produced for 2023.

I appreciated all your help 🙂

Have a new topic with all the tvs i bought and returned:

https://ledstrain.org/d/1955-finding-a-usable-4k-tv-my-case-history

hayder1983

raven83 it worked on my tv and my screens. You have to use it on static white(e.g. hold it at the settings menu window while the movie is playing). It seems to be accurate when the light is 50+ nits. Below that it delivers questionable results.

I had nausea with the sony oled but no eyestrain at all. It was too bright, but there was no eye pain. Didnt try again. If i try again, i will try LG C2 or LG B2.

hayder1983

KM the Opple measures only 24ms and makes these two images. This is my benq ew3270u at 20% brightness for example. It is better than nothing but you are right to say real time is better.

raven83

Since a couple of days i had a small high soft buzz in my head. Searched the web and youtube and i can say with certain that i got some sort of tinnitus. This started on the 3th or 4th day of watching TV with this OLED. I searched the web for oled tv tinnitus and i got severall hits including on this forum. So the TV must GO 🙁

There are people that got this buzz with their oled tvs and i am convinced that this is another manifestation of flicker.

My eyes are great no eye strain, but continued to have small low level migraines that evolved to this tinnitus thing. Since i have the return max date at end of jannuary will try to test more but for sure i am to return this TV.

Also i found that the TV APP on android is better to watch tv (got me more relaxed with viewing less migraines) however when i connect hdmi sources such nvidia shield or even in the internal you tube app things become a bit more syntomatic. ( not sure why this happens all image presets are the same)

I am also having ideas of buying the 48A90K to see if i get the same result …however this is a pricier tv around 1400-1500 euros :S

Another hope is a new QD oled Tv that "could" appear in 2023 for 50" fingers crossed!

What gives me hope regarding oled its that my eyes are fine! So another oled tv model… maybe…. can work for me….

seeker_of_no_light

raven83 I searched the web for oled tv tinnitus and i got severall hits including on this forum. So the TV must GO 🙁

There are people that got this buzz with their oled tvs and i am convinced that this is another manifestation of flicker.

Not sure whether tinnitus results from flicker (I won't rule it out though, since flicker messes with your iris muscles), but I do know that one thing that can cause tinnitus are tight muscles around your head, neck, and shoulder area, which might also be the cause for being sensitive to flicker. I got tinnitus roughly two years ago, almost a year after my flicker sensitivity issues came back after being somewhat dormant before that.

My tinnitus is still there, but I could improve it quite a bit by doing several things, for instance, by wearing prescribed night braces to keep me from grinding my teeth, which eventually can cause you to have tight neck muscles. Also particular sleeping positions can result in tinnitus getting worse (in my case it's laying on the back).

raven83

seeker_of_no_light you think this is not from the tv? Last week i got a cold，fever and gut issues something i eat or seasonal winter viruses according with a medic…but i am recovered. Coincidence or not this started the third tv day and continues…

seeker_of_no_light

raven83 It was not my intention to imply that. Just wanted to propose a theory that tinnitus might be tangently related to issues resulting from flicker, since the eye muscle strain and tightness resulting from flicker may spread to nearby muscles close to the ear and the tightness of these muscles could cause tinnitus.