Guys, I've been meaning to write here for some time, but forgetting every time. So I was stuck with my Xperia mini st15i since 2012, but recently my mate decided to upgrade his oneplus 3 to 7 and offered to send me that old one. I read many good reviews on it so decided to give it a try. At first I felt like it was okay, as in i was able to do some essential things with it and not get immediate headache/strain, but the anxiety was still there so I was using it for a short time. After a while I threw away the presumptions and prejudice and wasn't watching my reactions anymore, and since then I have basically no issues with it, so I can say it works for me. Not that I wanna upgrade it anytime soon, but would be interesting to check the newer models and see if they're as good. Anyway, for ppl with old ass phones like my xperia, this could be a big upgrade if you can tolerate it. Hope that helps

I wonder why there seems to be no replies or interest in the devices that I have found problem free? LIke the Motorola G5 plus. It's a cheap readily available phone for anyone to try. If you have the problem with PWM and flickering, why not try the device that another person with sensitivity to PWM has found problem free? I've now used a could of weeks the Moto G5 Plus so that the backlight is over 65% and I have zero eye strain.

It seems that really those displays that do have PWM are OK when the backlight is not on the level that activates the PWM. That's why those displays that do not have PWM at all, do give eye strain as there is some other sort of similar flicker inducing technology that is used instead of PWM.

DC dimming does not help at all, for me. That's why now OLED screen will ever work, until they come up with a totally flicker free OLED. DC dimming still flickers heavily.

    9 days later

    Peter I never updated my device. I read just now that there might be an A70 recall for some reason and that they would give people the A71 as a replacement. If this happens it means we'll be back in the lottery again. I guess we'll see how it goes.

      Maxx why not try the device that another person with sensitivity to PWM has found problem free?

      Unfortunately, what works for one person rarely works for another.

      • Maxx replied to this.
      • AGI likes this.

          Seagull Hi, that is the case in many situations, but especially with this, we do not know without trying.

          I don't want to antagonize anyone, but my humble quest here is to get people to try those devices that are ok for me. This is because I firmly believe that my problem would be something completely unique. If we find that the problem is the same for many others, then we might be able to get some momentum with the manufacturers.

          But if this remains a problem which is completely different for each people, this will never be resolved. Also then what is the point of this forum if everybody suffers from a different condition with their eyes, or better yet, not even limited to eyes.

            I have a really bad issue with headaches with probably 98%+ devices. I've finally found a mobile phone which is better than my old Nexus 5, so this is a huge deal for me. I got two phones half a year ago from China, one as a spare, and they've never caused a headache for me.

            Get this:
            Xiaomi Mi 9 Lite (global version). It has a good/great Oled and modern enough, in every regard!

            No headaches!!
            And I've used this phone non-stop for soon 9 months, in the dark, in the bright, and regardless of display brightness. Btw, PWM is a bit of a red herring. The strobe can cause nausea etc. but the absence of it doesn't mean you won't get a headache/nausea. It's the uneven current supply, the high frequency voltage ripple, that causes most issues. I've checked with an oscilloscope, and my findings appear to confirm this.

            I've also owned the non-lite version and Xiaomi mi mix 2s.. both caused me severe issues. Also many modern Samsungs.. no go.

              Wibin Do you have any idea why this device would be OK? It has the exact same AMOLED as many other phones and it has a PWM of 240Hz

              I see no reason why this would be OK, but many other devices not.

                  Peter any Pixel3aXL update? your description sounds like my LG screen that i've grown into after initial headaches.

                      Maxx in my mind it's never been a question of the panel being used. It's close to irrelevant, apart from maybe frame rate control (dithering) and pixel grid moire effects. The actual culprit will be the stability of the current fed into the backlight/oled in 90% of the cases. That includes visible/measurable PWM and the visually often unnoticeable current/voltage fluctuations.

                      To put it bluntly, I find that cheaper phones have more stable power output and thus lower propensity to cause headache and/or eyestrain. That's likely because the power supply components are larger, unlike the razor thin flagship models where they've squeezed the life out of the components trying to cram it all in.

                      This Xiaomi has DC dimming, which I enable first thing. And the remaining power/light output fluctuations do not cause me any issues. Either because they practically don't exist, or because the frequency is sufficiently high to not cause discomfort. There will always be output ripple in the buck converters; question is whether the frequency is at a triggering rate and the magnitude of the ripple. Also the power draw design factors into play. The cpu power draw can cause ripple as all components pull power from just one source (the battery), which might not be compensated sufficiently by the buck converter's feedback circuitry, or possibly even overcompensated and overshooting the voltage delivered to the backiight/oled.

                      I've made countless desktop monitors headache free by replacing the power feeding for the backlight with ripple free dc power. Not in one of them have I had an issue since, so at least in my case it's always the power input. Not glare, bad coatings, pixel grids, FRC, radiation, magnet fields, US politics, retina, bad eyesight or any of the other ideas thrown around. Just simply: if it flickers at a high rate (or any rate), it causes me nausea and/or headache in the frontal lobe. And my case is pretty bad since in practice I can't use any device without severe issues.

                          Wibin can you do that with any monitor, and how large would the remaining ripple be, as a percentage "(max-min)/max"?

                            Wibin I've made countless desktop monitors headache free by replacing the power feeding for the backlight with ripple free dc power

                            Got any oscilloscope measurements of the power input or backlight flucations?

                              Wibin I've just bought this Xiaomi. I will test it out today and let you know.

                                  Wibin Did you need some time to adapt or you were always symptom-free with this phone?

                                    reaganry I have switched the Pixel with my wife's Samsung A70 because i wanted the dual sim option. I got used to the Pixel from the start after i updated to Android 10. It is ok for me.

                                    But Samsung A70 with Android 9 is even better. I use it all day long with no issues. It took some to get used to it at first but now it is absolutely fine.

                                        Peter Good news. I was wondering if I could get used to some modern phones if I use it for weeks on daily basis. How long did it take you to adapt to A70?

                                            Kray The same happened to me back then with my iPad 4 when I tried the iOS 8 beta. Did you ever try iOS 9 on your iPad 2, and did it become usable again?

                                              5 days later

                                              I jailbroke my iPad 4 now and with an app called "coolbooter" I could install iOS 10 in parallel to iOS 7 (dual boot) to see if it's usable. Seems similar to iOS 7. But now that I have found much better displays I truly notice how bad the iPad's screen is for me. It is "usable" but only at super low brightness or the headache kicks in quickly.

                                              I think all 32-bit iDevices, including iPhones, can be jailbroken and downgraded at least in the form of a dual boot. Might need a lot of time to inform oneself, but maybe one of you has old 32-bit iDevices and wants to experiment.

                                              dev