Usable Smartphones?

Maxx

now if I may offer similar doubt to people who doubt my PWM sensitivity: Those who think they are sensitive to led light and blue light and not flicker, have you absolutely confirmed with an oscilloscope or a DSLR that the Led that you think is causing the problem is totally flicker free? and that you are not using a flickering display device or video projector like DLP in that space where the assumed source of Led lighting is? My friend thought that he is sensitive to fluorescent lights at the office, but he was using a flickering display in that office, which ended up being the source of the problem. yes the blue spike in led is not good, but is it really the source of the eye strain or headache or is it the flickering of the led?

degen

"The OnePlus 7 Pro operates even more cleanly here. At 50% brightness, there is no flickering anymore, which only occurs at very low brightness levels"

It would be nice if notebookcheck showed the oscilloscope graph for 0% on their DC dimming article. So some flickering is still present on OnePlus 7 Pro at "very low brightness levels". What frequency I wonder?

Maxx

degen if it really helps, I could measure the frequencies. I gave the phone to my wife, so it's available. But for me the slight flicker that still is there at over 50%, is enough. It is the same as Galaxy s2 and s3 at 100% and those I could not tolerate.

vaz

@Maxx nobody is telling you that your experience is objectively wrong...as you are doing to others directly and taking everything as some attack as if you are a victim here. You are fixated on PWM. Maybe it is...maybe it isn't the problem. Maybe another flicker is and you THINK its PWM. Maybe it is 100% PWM for you. I know its not for me and you don't seem to apply the same respect to others you demand for yourself in saying "I KNOW WHATS WRONG WITH ME" over and over. You are rude and aggravating, and I have been patient every time I felt like saying this so far, and you are not suffering more than the rest of us. Many of us already have lost jobs and cannot use devices. Stop taking it out on us. You aren't the only one here.

Maxx

vaz so really, I accept that your problem is not PWM, but I kindly request you and others to accept that my problem is flicker from PWM and other sources. So if I come to the forum to report that Nova5t is not good for those who have the PWM problem and ask if anyone would know if there is a phone with LCD without PWM and is confirmed to be OK by someone who has the PWM problem, it is not very nice that few people actually answer the question, instead try to challenge that I'm mistaken about my problem since 25 years. Just like the typical clueless eye doctor. I think if we here are people who have lost jobs over these problems, we would have more understanding that maybe someone has a problem that I do not understand.

Maxx

it is rude from you to continue your "maybe it is PWM, maybe it is not" when I've told the proof that for me it is PWM. It is a fact. Can you please get over it? There are other sources of flicker, but PWM is totally proven source of eye strain for me and many others, no question about it at all.

And if you did not notice, I was just feeding the same back as an example, now you seem to understand how it feels as you got agitated.

vaz

Maxx

I've been agitated by most of your posts for a while now and if I could find an ignore function on the site I'd have used it. But you got what you wanted...conflict. Some people post to argue and fight. It's common online and it creates so much noise. You needed an outlet and used others here for that. I think that's wrong of you...but it's clear you will always feel the victim and fight back if anyone says anything you disagree with. I'm done with it. I just got sick of seeing your constant arguing cluttering up the thread.

Maxx

vaz I did not start it. I reported and asked a question, but was met with a challenge about the problem that I have. In these situation I will always respond. It is a shame that most internet discussions are like this - a constructive post is met with negativity and people are usually just waiting to challenge and attack. So, sometimes it's fight fire with fire, I'm human too and this problem is frustrating enough that these challenges don't feel so welcome.

Maxx

Gurm are u really serious? I have had this PWM and flicker problem for 25 years and I have not come across a single display that has PWM or flicker that would not cause problems for me. And I have several displays that do not have PWM that I am ok with. So please, show me a device with PWM that do not get my eyes bloodshot. I'll get it and show you over Skype, others can witness and if my eyes get bloodshot, u pay double the price of the device, if not, I'll pay u. We could do this with a device that does not have PWM at 100hz brightness and I could show u my eyes when the brightness is 99%. Many Samsung monitors have this

Maxx

Gurm I wonder why you would say something like that as I think u shoud know that your statements are not true. Check noteboocheck and u will find that there are several displays without PWM.

And Like I said, I've had this for 25 years also with crt and ctfl displays. With ctfl and crt the flicker is softer as the light does not switch off immediately, instead fades away.

How do u explain then that a screen is OK at 100 brightness when there is no PWM but immediately causes bloodshot eyes at 99% How do u explain this? Or are you saying that this is not the case for me? that u know better how my eyes react?

Maxx

I'm willing to reiterate what I said before. In about 2005 I had a 27 inch Samsung ctfl display. I kept noting that when I play games on several nights, my eyes get red. But then I got a Led screen and that strained my eyes immediately. After I learned about PWM, I was able to use both of the screens without any problems at 100% brightness., when there was no PWM.

during the Crt years my eyes were constantly bloodshot and I was going to several doctors in vain. but the irritation was milder. I just thought my eyes tire easily at work or when gaming.

but now when I'm using displays without PWM, or any other sort of flicker my eyes are clear and I don't have any symptoms. But an hours meeting on a dlp projector or 240hz PWM screen gets my eyes bloodshot.

Maxx

Maxx I tried 2 Epson 3ldc projectors at home after and OLED tv. Both Epson advertises as flicker free. But of course, I was detecting flicker with my dslr and my eyes became bloodshot. During 2006-2010 I had an epson projector at home, which did not show any flicker with a dslr and I was able to watch whole seasons of TV serieses without any issue.

So yes, for me it is the flicker. But e. g my wife did not seem to have any problems with the screens that get my eyes bloodshot

Maxx

Gurm can u just stop? I've been to countless doctors, neurologists, my brain has been mri'd 3 times etc. No no epilepsy. No problem with fast scenes in movies. I can play call of duty marathons for 12 hours straight without any issues with a screen that does not flicker. And your percentage assessment is just wrong. there are quite a number of people just like me, if u look at the forums. Hahaha. pre-epileptic for 25 years. Give me a break

Maxx

Maxx why do u say I'm not going to find it when I have found it already? A DISPLAY THAT DOES NOT FLICKER!

there is no PWM type flicker in nature. I you look at the sun light through tree leaves, the leaves fade in and out over the sun. the light will not go black abrubtly like OLED and the frequency is not as fast. same with light shining from waves. So nothing epileptic or similar about this problem - just my optic nerves are more sensitive to flicker. But flickering light is not natural and I don't believe that is helping anyone

Gurm

Maxx you're absolutely right that it isn't helping anyone, I think prevalence of this will increase. And I'm glad you have displays that work for you. Not ... really ... sure why you're still arguing then? If you've found your solution? Did I miss something? You seem to simply be telling people that they're PWM sensitive, when in fact there are other complicating factors. Not really sure why you can't grasp that. I can tell when a screen has PWM, but it simply doesn't bother me. That said, I am VERY MUCH bothered by LED lighting in the blue spectrum if it's too intense. I'm also hugely impacted by rendering flicker. I just don't care, and never have, about PWM. And I think that for MOST of us, it's a red herring. Because we can make known good displays hurt our eyes by changing the input. Is it a contributing factor for some? Sure.

Anyway, seems you just want to argue. Not going to fuel that any more. I'll be removing my comments and not engaging any further.

Maxx

I guess my non native English is confusing u.

I'm not telling people they are PWM sensitive. In the one previous message I was just kinda jokingly putting it that way, as many are trying to tell me that I'm not in fact PWM sensitive.

Why I'm posting here is that there are others here like me and I 1. want to tell which devices work for me, so they can try if they work for them.2. get similar info from others. 3. get info if something else is being done about the flicker issue.

I do fully accept that there are people with motion sickness, epilepsy, blue light sensitivity, light sensitivity etc. even if I'm not one of them.
OK?

Maxx

But gurm - since u say that all displays have PWM and u don't have issue with PWM, doesn't that kinda imply that you have not tried a display without PWM? (since all displays have it, as u say) maybe u should try a PWM and flicker free display now that you have learned from me which devices are such and see if it makes a difference for u

diop

Maxx Could you not just wait for this problem to resolve itself and continue to use a comfortable display (even a 20 y/o CRT if that's what it takes) and use a HDMI>VGA adapter or similar?

Plug a new computer into an display that works for you, and see if there are still issues.

Maxx

Thank you Gurm for agreeing to stop. Let's try to find solutions and not focus on trying to tell what problem someone else has or doesn't have. I guess we all argee, that LED's and OLED's are a source of problem for many here. So the focus should be on how to make them problem free. For me and many others, removing flicker is enough. For some others, that is not enough, but I'm quite sure that nobody benefits from the flicker.

Maxx

diop That is what I have been doing - I have my HPzr2740w PWM free LCD Led back lit display at home. My surface Pro 2 from 6 years ago at 100 brightness (no PWM) and I just bought a Sony Android low end 65 TV that is flicker free. But why I posted here was that my smartphone broke down and I'm trying to find a smartphone that would have similarly flicker free display as xz premium, but it is difficult to find. I ordered xz2 second hand and I should be able to confirm if that really is flicker free during this week.

At work I have a flicker free Lenovo, but when that gets renewed, I might have difficulties getting a laptop that has flicker free display. As you might know, you just don't bring your own device to many corporations.

So like those who get problems with led bulbs installed to offices, I might be in a similar situation with displays - I might soon have no working devices that I'm able to use.

Gurm

Maxx even with known good displays, many of us are in the same situation at work. My team is building out the next generation of Autopilot machines, that self-install and self-update. I can't stay with Windows 10 1511, which is now 4 years old. Therefore, all displays are bad for me now, irrespective of flicker/pwm/technology/frequency, because Windows introduced flicker/whatever into their rendering pipeline. I've been self-medicating with a THC/CBD tincture, but many people don't have that option where they live due to legality.

As for your phone issue, I'm just not sure you'll find one. I don't know what the original OS was on the XZ Premium, but there have been certain known-good displays in the past. That said, you OUGHT to be able to get another XZ Premium, Google shows them for sale for $265-ish. If the XZ2 is good, so be it, but you might miss the extra screen size. 🙂

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