Usable Smartphones?

P650SE

Maxx Just to correct you, my laptop (the one I recommended) does not have a TN panel, it is IPS, and like I said in my message, the viewing angles are excellent. I have used TN panels in the past and this is drastically better! The display has no PWM at any brightness level. Clevo laptops like this one are sold by vendors that allow you to customise the laptop upon purchase, often with multiple choices of displays, so if you found a P650SE with a TN panel then it was likely because it was an optional high refresh rate (120Hz or 144Hz) panel for gaming, or a 4K resolution panel intended for photo editing.

The one in mine is a matte 15.6" AU Optronics B156HAN01.2 IPS 60Hz 1920x1080, you can find reviews of this panel on the NotebookCheck website in multiple different laptops... No eye strain at all from someone who is very sensitive to all of the modern smartphone displays!

bitslacker

@Maxx I had Huawei P20, which apparently has no PWM (according to notebookcheck) and it gave me crazy eye strain. At the beginning I could use it for a couple of hours, then minutes at the end after looking at it for few seconds I was feeling discomfort, P20 has LTPS screen, hence my previous comment.
Notebookcheck also provide subpixel arrays for many phones, photos sometimes are blurry and at different angles, but what I noticed is that I can't look at some of them i.e. LTPS one is soo wavy it just hurts my eyes.

Back in the day I did suffer with CRT monitors, LCD's saved me now they "improved" them and here we are again.

I think PWM is the problem, but not the only one. I will test my LG with a dimmer app and brightness set above 50% see if that helps, as I did watch some videos at night.

s_u_

bitslacker

I am almost 100% sure that PWM is not the only case.

bitslacker

@Maxx I know you are a big Motorola fan, but looking at this comments makes me think I might have issues with it as well https://ledstrain.org/d/1011-is-this-pwm-on-a-pwm-free-device. It's on my watch list.

I was also looking at Oppo Find X2 Lite, I like the phone it has AMOLED display, but you can enable DC dimming, not convinced that it will help though as my Mate 20 PRO has "Reduce flicker", which I think is the same and it doesn't do much. Anyone tried that one?

bitslacker

Another 2 phones, which look interesting to me with IPS displays, :
Realme X50 5G - it has 120Hz screen, so might be worth a shot
Nokia 8.3 5G - based on previous comments, perhaps this one is not the best choice

kammerer

I've tested during 2 weeks Xiaomi POCO X3 NFC. Mostly in dark mode + warm colors + reading mode (all together).
In short time perspective it's less aggressive for my eyes than other devices I've wrote about above.
But in long it give me strong discomfort, light dizziness, headache

Maxx

@bitslacker Yes, it has PWM above 65% brightness. But I¨ve used it several months so that I keep it above. Yes it can be bright in the evening, but I use blue blockers in the evening anyway, so does not really bother me.

Sunspark

Hisense put out another e-ink smartphone, the A7, has 5G (tho I don't care about that). Big device, 6.7". Might be of interest to some. First release is greyscale, and supposedly there'll be another release later with color e-ink.

francerex

Thank you so much to everyone for their contributions!

I have been lurking for a few months now and it has been quite useful, I find that I share many of the symptoms that you guys reported. I would like to add my small contributions of devices that I tried:

Iphone X and successive oled (those are pure hell, the headache lasted even after i sold it for a few days)
MacBook air 2020 (bad but not insta death)
Ipad Pro 2018 (bad but not insta death)
Iphone 11/XR (bad but not insta death)

I can use the ipad air 3 and the iphone 8plus decently if i dont exagerate, but they still are not completely comfortable.
I am now trying the iPhone SE 2020, and it is such a bummer, as i have exactly the same symptoms as with the iphone 11. Dizziness, pressure around the eyes and on the nose, dry eyes, etc. Surprisingly, using anti-blue light glasses helps, but i really dont want to wear glasses just to use my phone. I am considering switching to android or downgrading to an iphone 8. However, i love the homepod mini and the apple watch (which is fine even if it has an oled screen, since i don't stare at it for hours.) and it seems like there is not a completely safe device in the android world 🙁

My laptops are an xps13 9300 and a dell latitude 5300, plus external dell screen. I love them. I can use them all day long without eyestraing if not the normal fatigue of a long work day. It has been a bless working from home and using my xps as a phone for whatsapp, telegram, tinder, instagram, e facebook etc.
I am quite worried about resuming traveling though. The phone is essential for so many things, and while it's good way reduce the screentime, ruining a day cause you want to navigate with google maps it's not something i look foward to.

Regarding the causes, has any of you taken the 23andme genetic test? my eysight is currently perfect, however my genetic test reports that I am at risk of developing Macular Degeneration, an eye disease. Many websites report that pwm might be a significant cause of it and I wonder if there is any correlation.

QlaGzr

Bought Motorola Moto G30. Nope, head said 💥...PWM. Returned it and tested Motorola Moto G5g plus. No PWM. But the screen is 1080p...so my head said 💥....The screen have to be 720p and 90hz-> for me. Oneplus Nord N100 is next put to test...

Maxx

QlaGzr Why does it have to be 720p?

QlaGzr

My migraine activates if the picture is too sharp(good)or 60hz. My cable tv provider box is set to SD 576p no problem with that. TV is Sony x850f(xf8500). No backlight and flicker free. And in Finland picture is 50hz.

Maxx

QlaGzr
I'm in Finland, too. Are you sure that the refresh is 50Hz in Finland in a TV? The Led lights on the ceiling are 50Hz x2, but I would think that the display refresh is 60Hz, which is not affected by the power grid or TV signal.

AI have also the same TV, as well a newer one from Sony that is also flicker free. But this years models are not PWM free anymore. I think they all use the 750Hz or some other higher frequency.

But this is really to the point that I'm worried. If one has a problem with 60Hz, but not 50Hz, it starts to be impossible to resolve the problem. Maybe if there would be a way to evaluate this a bit more scientifically to really confirm what it is that irritates the eyes, or causes a migraine.

TV's are also a bit problematic testing source, since few people watch TV more than a couple of hours a day and it usually happens in the evening after most likely using a problematic device at work, such as a laptop or conference room display or projector. E.g DLP projectors get my eyes red in 30 min.

On that note, I was testing several projectors a year ago but found none that would not flicker with a DSLR test. All produced eye strain quite quickly.

Now that I have returned the 5 laptops and back to using Lenovo x280 and HP display, I have zero eye strain.

I'm tempted to try the Motorola Moto G100, which is kinda an updated version of G 5g Plus, which is also problem free for me.

P650SE

I tried Nokia 8. Phone is 3½ years old but it has some decent specs including 5.3" QHD IPS display and Snapdragon 835.

On the website NotebookCheck it reports 2.3K PWM at 17% brightness and below. I tested this myself with a Canon 80D DSLR camera with 1/640 shutter speed in video mode, and I can clearly see PWM stripes up until 24% brightness. If I increase the shutter speed to 1/2000 there are still very slight stripes visible up until around the 50% mark, but they are nowhere near as evident as before 24% brightness.

Colours of the screen are a bit oversaturated and have a strong blue tint. Especially the whites seem blinding to the eyes indoors. There is nowhere in the settings that allows adjusting the colour temperature or saturation. At first I tried using the 'Night Light' feature of Android to correct this but it made the screen too orange even on the most minimum setting. So then I downloaded the app 'Colour Corrector' from the Play Store which was better, but still not sufficient to correct the problems... The only way to deal with this would be to unlock the bootloader and install a custom ROM which has support for KCAL colour correction.

Despite of this, I can tell that even with the proper adjustments my eyes are still going hurt from this screen. The PWM is causing a problem for me, and is there well beyond the 17% brightness that NotebookCheck reported... It feels like my eyes are sore, tired and heavy when using the Nokia 8.

With that - I have officially given up with Android smartphones. Most of them use PWM (even the ones with IPS) and the remaining devices (like Realme) are all way too oversized and impossible to use comfortably with one hand. I already tried HTC U11, Huawei P20, Redmi Note 8 Pro as well with no success.

So, I have decided that a switch to iOS is inevitable and I will purchase an iPhone XR as the next device!

QlaGzr

Maxx

That is the video signal. I would think that the panel still keeps refreshing at 60 Hz like 99% of the LCD and OLED panels in the world. Or am I really mistaken?

QlaGzr

TV is 100hz. why would it try to push to 60hz, when the signal is 50hz? No problems watching. I have problems with light bulps which have usually 50-60hz text in the package. I live basically in the dark, with my tv. I can't even watch that 24hz. And that is the reason why i can't go to the movies. They show the films in 24hz. I did see The Hobbit with that 3-D HFR. No problem. Then Force Awakens 3-D, I almosta walked out.... Terrible. Rogue One and Ready player one...normal versions. After 30 min. into the film, I had to take again triptan. So when Elisa Viihde got that 24 hz and in Sony Tv I put the sync on....same...30 minutes and turned it off. I had to teach my neurologist Matti Ilmavirta these things....!?! Hz and flicker...

QlaGzr

https://www.expat-finland.com/telecommunications_and_media/television.html

Maxx

QlaGzr isn't tv exactly the same as a computer monitor. If a TV panel refresh is 60Hz or 100Hz, but you view what ever video signal from youtube or digibox, then the panel refresh stays at the default 60Hz or 100 Hz. Only the video signal frame changes are visible in e.g. 24hz or what ever.

QlaGzr

https://towsemi.com/

Maxx

QlaGzr This is BS. This has the exact same PWM when adjusting the brighness, as the Android system brighness.

QlaGzr

Motorola Moto G20 and Oneplus Nord N100 were also a bust. Even thou Notebookchech says in their test Oneplus have no PWM... The one I bought had...still seaching...

« Previous Page Next Page »