Usable Smartphones?

JTL

Rui I haven't done a detailed analysis, but I have reason to believe the various attempts at antiflicker options for OLED displays aren't the same between devices, even when they're marketed the same (i.e 1920, 2160hz).

Sunspark

You already found a device that you said was very comfortable, the X8A..

What is the issue? Are you a big heavy-graphics phone gamer? A big photographer? If the answer is no to both..

tfouto

Rui Why don't you keep using Xiaomi 11T Pro? It's still a very capable phone.

Rui

tfouto

Well for me security is also very important. The phone is still being updated but it will stop soon since it's "old". I won't fell safe using it in a few months.

And the other reason why I won't go back to Xiaomi 11T Pro. I've seen numerous people ok with a certain model. For various reasons they bought the exact same model for the 2nd time. And the experience was not the same in terms of eye comfort like the 1st one. Too risky. That would really make me mad and definitely made me stop pursuing and testing new phones that are doing something to give us safer screens.

I've returned Realme 10 Pro Plus 2160 pwm. Nice budget phone, almost there but still not there in terms of comfort.

BloodyHell619

Rui Well after been using a phone with 1920 Hz pwm for a few days (Xiaomi 12T Pro) all I can say it's almost that same… problem. It's not so agressive to my eyes as other phones. But the discomfort it's still there. I'll change to 60 Hz to see if it helps. But I'll sell it.

Next phone has to have DC dimming. I had no problems with Xiaomi 11T pro that had antiflicker option. But it's getting old and I like to have latest security updates. Xiaomi just released Xiaomi 13 with DC dimming and Xiaomi 13 pro with 1920 Hz pwm. I'll probably buy the normal version because it has DC dimming

Conclusion. If it mentions PWM, even to say 1920 Hz or whatever, there's a good chance you'll feel discomfort.

I think the base PWM on which the DC Dimming is applied over matters too. In the Case of the 12T Pro the base PWM is only 120Hz while with the 11T Pro it is above 240Hz. This is why it's been a few days, I am crazily tempted to make one last leap of faith and go for the Xiaomi 11 Ultra. The screen is said to be true 10-bit if I am correct and the base PWM that the DC Dimming is applied to is over 400Hz. Plus the DC Dimming works even at 120 refresh rate.

Has anyone herer tried this phone?

BloodyHell619

Well crap, the Mi 11 Ultra actually isn't truly 10-bit -.- it uses TD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb0BG0ixuQA

3:50

God dammit. Not even one goddamn high-end phone does both things right. I'm starting to develop conspiracy theories, maybe these screen building companies are trying to f up our visions, lol

https://en.xiaomitoday.it/xiaomi-mi-10-ultra-best-display-in-the-world.html

This article says that the Mi 10 ultra is true 10-bit though. If anyone could get their hands on one, give it a try. It has a PWM Frequency between 223Hz to 486Hz plus DC Dimming.

KM

studioceleste The downgrade method required for the iPhone 4 is unofficial (a hack) and won't work on later devices. I don't remember the exact steps, its too long ago. But I'm sure there are still manuals out there. However, as said, this won't help you at all with your current iPhone. You'd need to wait until there's a jailbreak, and one that can be used to downgrade the OS. I am not up to date with what's possible on newer gen devices.

tfouto

Rui Well I use a Sony Xperia XZ 2 which is > 4 years old. I think its easy to be safe with proper measures.

Rui

Can someone explain this review from notebookcheck about Xiaomi 13 Pro (1920 PWM)?

Like all OLED displays, the Xiaomi 13 Pro's screen flickers across the entire brightness spectrum. We measured a frequency of 120 Hz up to a brightness of 59 percent with a flat amplitude curve.

And that's why I felt more comfortable at night? Low pwm but flat….? Where is the 1920 pwm?

The panel flickers between 361 and 366 Hz above this brightness limit.

Maybe this is why I felt more uncomfortable during the day? (I live in a sunny country) Those values are kind of low. My pixel 7 had that values… Headache for headache I would chose pixel 7…

Vividblu99

Rui It seems like Notebookchecks test doesn't correspond with Xiaomi's 1920hz marketing claim.

Take these claims with a pinch of salt.

BloodyHell619

https://www.epey.co.uk/phone/screen-features/10bit-8-bitplus2-bit-frc-colour-depth/

Okay this list is interesting. It will help us to atleast know what not to try. It's crazy how many phones are using dithering!!

I'm almost starting to think that DC Dimming has been introduced to cover up the dithering rather than PWM so the 2 strains don't stack up lol

The Xiaomi 11T, 11T Pro and even the Xiaomi 12 lite ….. They all dither !!!

No wonder why I was getting eyes strain using the 11T Pro of a friend of mine the other day even with dc dimming turned on.

Abeabe

BloodyHell619 DC dimming is only a marketing gimmick, they all flicker even with DC dimming activated and can be easily recorded with a camera, they flicker with very low frequencies, so you will suffer very easily from eye fatigue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNoxcVaUHAI

engine_er

I too have tried many phones and am getting frustrated. I last tested the Motorola G73. Although there is no review on NBCH yet, I experienced discomfort (slight headache) when using it.

Is there actually a "usable" phone that can be bought? Realme 9 PRO?

Vividblu99

engine_er Same here. I also tried the G73, and felt instant eye discomfort. Not sure why, as apparently it's PWM free.

Realme 9 pro is a safe bet. It's resonated well with many people, although a handful on here have referenced issues. Keep in mind, it'd be worth picking one up now, as it's very likely realme/oppo/oneplus may discontinue sales of their phones in some countries due to legal issues with Nokia/Patents.

The Honor X8A is quite comfortable, but it's terribly underpowered and underspecced. You'd be better off getting a used Honor view 20 from 2019, as even that has more powerful specs (apart from the display).

Honor have also released the 70 lite. It's cheap (£179-UK), has 4GB ram & a 720p display. From the looks of it, it seems like a rebranded honor x8 5g.

Other notable mentions: Realme X50 5G, Nord CE 2 Lite 5G, Oppo A77 5G, Nokia G60.

engine_er

Vividblu99 Thanks for the tips. The only usable one (for me) of the listed phones is the Realme 9 Pro. The rest are weak low end.

Vividblu99

engine_er Yes, they are all weak/low end unfortunately. The Poco X4 GT & the Honor X40 GT were never released in my country so haven't had a chance to test. They looked promising.

Wonder what the Poco X5 GT has in store and whether it'll receive an international release. It's a shame all the powerful LCD based phones are limited to select market regions only (& China).

Vividblu99

engine_er The last powerful LCD phone I can recall that was released in my country was the Moto G200.. And that display was horrendous.

engine_er

Vividblu99 When the motorola G200 came out, I tested it, but probably I was unlucky with the display and it was unusable for me - the headache came right away.

I also tried the Poco X4 GT, but like the rest of the Xiaomis with an IPS display, it was very uncomfortable to use.

As mentioned here, temporal dithering is a bigger problem than PWM. I'm still inclined to try some OLED with a straight PWM waveform, but before that I need to be sure that it will be a true 10-bit panel and no FRC will be used. Dovtedy sa budem musieť uspokojiť so súčasným Realme 7 5G, prípadne s Realme 9 Pro.

RulerofNothing

Sad to hear with the G73 😕 So maybe the Galaxy A14 5G could be the better option.

I use the Realme 9 Pro with matte screen protector for good 14 months as daily driver without trouble.

Has here someone try the Galaxy M53 or will the M54? It has a Super Amoled Plus Display. So full subpixels like LCD Display and no pentile matrix. But the review from Notebookcheck about thr M53 looks not very promising 😔

Vividblu99

engine_er Same. The G200 display is awful. Instant eye strain.

Realme 7 5g & Realme 9 Pro are good choices 👍

Tobiyas

engine_er I have been looking into this migraine/ eyestrain problem for over half a decade now. I noticed that Gamma is also a cause of headache, besides PWM/ any other flickering. Motorola G200 has a gamma of 1.94(based on report by notebookcheck.net) and this means brighter areas will become much brighter while darker areas will become much more dimmer. An ideal gamma to me is 2.2. Any value lower would be too bright for me.

Color temperature(CCT) is what caused our eyestrain. a perfect pure white light is 6500Kelvins. Notebookcheck reports G200 with 7100K. That's rather bluish and it emits lots of blue light.

I use iphone 7 Plus with a gamma of 2.2 and CCT of 6667K. No PWM as well. I could use it continuously for 12 hours straight without any eyestrain or headache. I have another iphone 8 Plus lying around but I dont use it. Its 6800k color temperature is rather purplish and it causes me mild eyestrain just after 10 minutes of use.

Poco X4 GT may have a gamma of 2.25 and CCT of 6500k, but has a PWM of 51K. I guess 51K may still cause discomfort for you then. For me, 21,000 hz pwm gave me both headache and eyestrain. A 200 hz gave me eyesore (with dry eyes) and a severe migraine with aura, within minutes. The first high PWM that does not give me discomfort is one with over 110K hz.

In summary based on my findings (for very sensitive individuals)

- below 2.2 value Gamma > headache (because content will look very bright)
- above 6500Kelvins/6600Kelvins Color temperature > eyestrain (because of the bluish light emitted)
- low flickering > headache and eyestrain (everyone's threehold for low is different)

« Previous Page Next Page »