The M9 is ... not as good as the M8, but it shipped with Marshmallow so that might be the problem.
Usable Smartphones?
5 days later
Have somebody tried LG G6, S8 or P10?
We have those only in our Mediamarkt, but they use some strong withe led-s in whole store so after few minutes i feel like on drugs. So it's impossible to test some thing. I think that LG should work for me but I don't have place to test it. I will try to order online and than return. When I see S8 on youtube it got PWM and some problem with red tint and I know now that color tint is also causing strain even if I'm using my old Samsung TV or LG G2 - small color change causing eye strain so I thing S8 will not work for me anyway.
4 days later
- Edited
On my iPhone 6s I have always used lowest brightness and when Night Shift became available I enabled that 24/7 and at it's warmest setting. There was an option in accessibility to 'Reduce White Point' but the effect was so insignificant as to make little difference.
The display was still way too bright. Recently I revisited the 'Reduce White Point' option and found that there is a sliding scale and you can really dial down the harshness of the light (believe this was introduced in 10.3). It's a huge improvement and I can use the phone for short periods to shoot a text or short email whereas previously I would not use it except to make calls which I did with voice commands.
It's still not a comfortable display and I can't get comfortable using as it can cause eyegraines which I usually associate with PWM but iPhone 6s does not use PWM..
Either way this new slider on 'Reduce White Point' is a big improvement.
7 days later
- Edited
I am iPhone fan since 3G. But I like other smartphones too. After 3G i cant use any high end smartphone because of eyestrain. I have problem with all flagships phones. I can distinguish ips display from the headache, nausea i get. I get a different type of headache from amoled. The only amoled i havent tried is rgb matrix. Pentile 100% headache for me. I dont have problem with ccfl. I thought i may try lg g flex the first one. Is it possible to order custom made display and fit it in smartphone? For example i would love a tn display like 3g's on iphone 6s for example. Has anyone tried anything like this or thought about it?
Here is another theory. One of the suspect of the causes of eye strain is the color profile or the color rendering, which this thread elaborates more in detail:
https://ledstrain.org/d/200-found-a-cure-for-one-machine-at-least/36
What if the same also applies for mobile phones? We have read reports that phones that were not causing eye strain (e.g. HTC M8), suddenly cause eye strain when the OS was upgraded, e.g. Android 5 upgraded to Android 6 (marshmallow). So the latest android OS must've added something or change the way the graphics are rendered that it is now causing eye strain.
If this theory is true, that means if we install apps that changes the color profile of the phone like CF.lumen, then there might be a chance that the app will override or eliminate whatever it is that is causing the eye strain in the new OS. The app also said that if the phone is rooted, then the app will work even better. Maybe in rooted phones, the app can override how the phone renders color completely?
Can someone give this a try? Especially those who has M8 or phones that were not causing eye strain before, but when they upgraded the OS, suddenly they get eye strain. I read there were a few in this scenario based on earlier posts in this thread. Let us know if our phone is rooted or not as well.
The problem is figuring out what changed from Lollipop (where most people were ok) to Marshmallow (where they weren't). We can say we suspect things like rendering and overlays and hardware surface whatchits but the reality is we just don't know. Nobody has found anything definitive that they can turn off and go "HA! IT WORKED!" so we're sort of stuck.
I know. Without knowing the exact cause, the only thing that we can do is trial and error. We take one theory or possible solution at a time, and try it out, and see if it works or not. And hopefully one of the theory or possible solution actually works.
- Edited
Gurm Nobody has found anything definitive that they can turn off and go "HA! IT WORKED!" so we're sort of stuck.
Well, we can narrow it down to something to do with the way the OS renders content to the screen. The OS alone shouldn't affect refresh rate or flicker. It can affect dithering and color. Unless the driver subsystem was changed, that could do it to
Kray If this theory is true, that means if we install apps that changes the color profile of the phone like CF.lumen, then there might be a chance that the app will override or eliminate whatever it is that is causing the eye strain in the new OS.
That was me. Unfortunately those "color filters" don't change the way the dispaly render colors. It just changes the color it is displaying. For example, if you are sensitive to particular spectrum of blue light the display emits, f.lux and the like won't change that from being emitted. It will just add red and green to the color display to make it look less blue.
ICC profiles work by actually changing the way the display shows colors. Unfortunately Google has decided not to add ICC support to Android, which is weird since there already exists an ICC profile class for Java so it would be trivial for it to be incorporated into the OS, and color accuracy is a huge deal for photographers and have kept smartphone from really being considered high end cameras, but they have handwaved away the issue like so many people who do not suffer our symptoms. You can search the Android bug report/suggestion forums for ICC and see the discussions.
Kray Can someone give this a try?
I did already. I have a Moto G, zero issues with a Skinomi screen protector and Lollipop, massive eye pain when it was upgraded to Marshmellow. I tried every light filter app out there, changed screen protectors, adjusted every display setting, nothing worked. Ultimately I had to restore the phone to stock and root it to block the update.
Kray We take one theory or possible solution at a time, and try it out, and see if it works or not. And hopefully one of the theory or possible solution actually works.
Yeah, I know I keep harping on it, but honestly, the color theory is the only theory that actually would explain every instance of eye strain I have experienced from any device and/or lighting source.
The color theory might be a good direction. I always got eye strain when trying any other color profiles on my OP3 other than "Default" (or whatever it's named). So my solution was to not change the color profile. It worked on Android 6 ("Marshmallow") and Android 7.0. Sadly, on Android 7.1, this doesn't help anymore. Whatever "they" did with the other profiles in earlier versions, they now seem to do with the default profile as well.
- Edited
I use a Samsung S5. Android has color management coming in O. To me that meams installing color profiles similar to icc on desktop but on mobile. I have really never had too much problem with any version software on my phone. It has an amoled display. only when looking at it while in front of my monitor does The strain happen on my phone. in a room, with lights off, is usually fine unless my eyes are super tired and i get the hangover my desktop system causes and my eyes are completely beat.
However, If i have other leds shining on my phone it can be an issue. From room lighting or monitor.
Im hoping there is more to icc profiles and monitor calibration than i thought. That would take so much mystery out of this. I am calibrating my monitor. See how that goes. a custom icc profile for the individual monitor in use.
Wrightpt1 Android has color management coming in O.
Source? That'd be awesome, it would give us an additional thing to try to resolve smartphone screen pain
Im hoping there is more to icc profiles and monitor calibration than i thought.
I'm trying to dive more into the the world of color profiles but it is a bewildering topic.
Source? That'd be awesome, it would give us an additional thing to try
to resolve smartphone screen pain
Check the bottom. Romanian guy is someone i used to follow on twitter and is on the Android team from what I understand.
https://techspecs.blog/blog/2017/2/28/why-fuchsia-needs-color-management
I talked to tech support from X-Rite and he said you cannot "edit" an ICC profile. You can only change the settings when making a new one. DisplayCal seems to beat out private commercial software from what i have read on Amazon, one comment on Reddit and other general forums it seems.
All this talk about IPS panels. I prefer the VA panel from Samsung. I go to Amazon and the 32 inch LG IPS has rave reviews, i got to youtube, people say its the best screen they have ever had, but IPS doesn't draw me in like the VA panel. its just to artificial while the VA panel is more like looking out of a window.
Also, here LG is apparently investing in OLED screens. I assume this is only for mobile devices:
https://techspecs.blog/blog/2017/4/26/lg-display-rumored-to-be-investing-in-mobile-oled-production
I read somewhere but can not longer find it but individuals from AU optronics, i think ceo actually, stating that they expect quantum dot screen to beat out OLEDs in the long run in terms of cost and performance i believe.
Wrightpt1 I talked to tech support from X-Rite and he said you cannot "edit" an ICC profile.
When I say "Edit", what I mean really is to read it. If I could read that ICC profile, and find out what changes it was making, I could possibly have custom tinted lenses made that replicate hat change which may help with other lighting sources.
Wrightpt1 Also, here LG is apparently investing in OLED screens.
Unfortunately the underlying technology doesnt seem to matter two much, users on this forum have tried OLED screen with unsatisfactory results. It seems any display type is capable of producing a display that causes eye strain
Added tech armor Matte screen protector on my iphone 6 , eyestrain (migraine) has reduced considerably, though it does come after a longer time.
I also noticed reduced eye strain on my Benq VA monitor by using it's native color profile. It has anyway been very good to my eyes, but when I did this about 3 months ago and it got better.
I also found that iphone 7 is quite ok. Samsung S8 causes instant migraine. Has anyone used Sony Z5 or Lenovo Phab 2
- Edited
I have always been able to use HTC phones (with Super LCD3) display without a problem. I have owned HTC One (m7), HTC One Max, I skipped M8, now I am using M9+ Supreme Camera Edition. All these phones uses Super LCD3, and I look at the screen for hours e.g. watching you tube without any problem whatsoever. Note that my M9+ is still on Android 5 (Lollipop). I dare not upgrade to Android 6 because I read users get eye strain after upgrading.
I have purchases many other phones, LG V10, Huawei Mate 7, Samsung Note 5, even other HTC model like E9+ that uses IPS display all give me eye strain. So far, only HTC phones with Super LCD3 display I can use without a problem.
So now is time to upgrade my phone again. HTC has new model, HTC 10 and U Ultra that uses Super LCD5. The 10 is last year's model, so I bought the U Ultra (also because I prefer bigger screen), which comes with Android 7. Lo and behold, I get eye strain. My one hope and phone brand that I can use now is unusable. This sucks.
This eye strain is different than, say a PWM induced eye strain. PWM i feel the strain more inside my eye balls. This eye strain from the phone is more like a throbbing inside my head (skull, brain), from ears up.
This phone has no PWM. I am assuming that Super LCD5 is not causing eye strain to me (because Super LCD3 does not give me eye strain, but I cant know for sure), and I assume the cause of eye strain is really because of Android 7. I tried tinkering with color and display setting. Not much can be changed.
I have discovered that this combination that makes the eye strain a little bit better:
Disable HW overlay + use "CF.lumen" app and change the master color profile (change RGB values, and use the auto-brightness of the app instead of the phone's). These 2 combination helps to reduce the eye strain, but the eye strain is still there and not 100% gone.
The CF.lumen app says that if the phone is rooted, it can work better. How better I am not sure, but I am hoping the app can change things at root or kernel level to change the color is displayed. But rooting my new HTC U Ultra will void my warranty, and if it doesnt work, I would loose a lot in resale value if I need to sell the phone.
If anyone has a rooted phone, can you install and try the CF.lumen app, let the app control the phone's auto-brightness, and set any value RGB and brightness so that the app will control the color and brightness, and see if it helps to reduce eye strain or not.
- Edited
ensete That was me. Unfortunately those "color filters" don't change the way the dispaly render colors. It just changes the color it is displaying. For example, if you are sensitive to particular spectrum of blue light the display emits, f.lux and the like won't change that from being emitted. It will just add red and green to the color display to make it look less blue.
ICC profiles work by actually changing the way the display shows colors. Unfortunately Google has decided not to add ICC support to Android, which is weird since there already exists an ICC profile class for Java so it would be trivial for it to be incorporated into the OS, and color accuracy is a huge deal for photographers and have kept smartphone from really being considered high end cameras, but they have handwaved away the issue like so many people who do not suffer our symptoms. You can search the Android bug report/suggestion forums for ICC and see the discussions.
You should really try and install the CF.lumen in your phone. The app does not just change the color of the phone, actually this is true only if your phone is unrooted. But for rooted phones, the app can install and change the driver of the graphics itself. Here is some extract of what the app can do:
Drivers
CF.lumen currently supports several driver backends to adjust the display: the original CF.lumen driver, the KCAL kernel driver, the PCC/RGB kernel driver, and the rootless (non-root) overlay. Driver selection will only be presented to you if multiple drivers are actually supported on your device.
Drivers: CF.lumen: Performance mode
This driver mode overrides Android's rendering system in a different way. While it doesn't work on all devices and firmwares, if it does work, it is often significantly faster than the compatibility mode. It also doesn't suffer from short flashes of the original colors being shown. This mode causes visible artifacts on some devices, though it isn't common.
Drivers: KCAL
The KCAL driver is quickly becoming a popular kernel mod for Qualcomm devices. It allows color adjustments in the display hardware itself. There is no performance difference with this driver, but of course your kernel must support it. This is the fastest driver.
Drivers: rootless
The rootless fallback driver (for non-root users) uses a color overlay. This is an additional surface, causes at least one additional expensive full-screen rendering step, and is likely to throw your system into software compositing mode most of the time. This is the slowest (and ugliest) driver.
Drivers: CF.lumen
The CF.lumen driver requires software compositing, as it changes the colors displayed during the software compositing step. Of course, it lets the system go back to hardware compositing if it's not actively changing colors. This can slightly impact performance. This driver changes colors on the surface content level, and can perform all sorts of calculus before deciding what to display. This usually gives it the highest possible image quality output.
More info here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=51779367#post51779367
I think this is the closest or the best we can get to changing the ICC profile of android phones.
ensete, since ICC and color profile has positive impact on your eye strain, you might want to give the app a try.
You can download the app here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=eu.chainfire.lumen&hl=en
I am going to install the CF.lumen on my new HTC U Ultra. Actually I have already installed the app on the phone, but my phone is not rooted yet, so it is operating on rootless-mode, which is just color overlay.
I am going to try installing the full app / kernel based driver.
But need to root it first. At first I was hesitant to root my phone, but after thinking about it, I have decided it is worth voiding the warranty (and losing considerable resale value) of my new phone for the possibility of finding a solution and for the possibility of being able to use the phone without eye strain.
But I have never rooted my phone before, so I need some time to learn all the steps and even the terminologies (like TWRP, bootloader etc). Right now all these terminologies are like foreign language to me. :-) Might take a while, but I will update how it goes once all is done.
Others, especially those who has rooted phones, should give this app a try too and see if it helps your eye strain.
- Edited
Kray My phone cannot be rooted as my work requires an unrooted device as a requirement and my job has a heavy mobile component. Interesting to see that CF.Lumen works that way on a rooted device though, curious if something those alternate drivers change would make a difference. Would love to see results of someone who had a phone that gave them problems, they tried CF.lumen, i didn't help, they then rooted the phone, tried it again, and found one of the alt drivers eliminated the eye strain. Not only would it be a good solution for people to try, it would narrow down the cause of the eye strain as something that driver is changing