I don't know what to do and feeling that I'm running out of options

Patoli

Your model is 2021. What I've saw is that this hell started around 2018.

Gaming for some time can bother, but with dark scences and color changes I think that it's easier than navigate on web or use a spreadsheet for exemple. This forum is and example. It's white and the characters black, so it's really difficult to look at, scroll and read, more than playing a game. What make us sad is that we could navigate here with old monitors without any problem but now it's hell.

Here in Brazil monitors are difficult. Many models doesn't arrive or we have to wait a long time and Dell has a superior quality and 3 warranty years. I think only Asus gives us 3 years too, but they have only a few shit models (unless very very expensive ones).

Today I put the P2423D on my wife's old system with Win10 and Intel graphics and after in my game PC with Win10 and RTX 3080 trying to play with settings. On my office the AMD Adrenalin with RX 6600 is not so good and even had gamma to change, but Intel and NVidia has. I've managed to change some stuffs and it's hard to tell if it changed something in terms of comfort.

I like white as close as 6500 K. I really hate warm. Is there for Windows some robust program to play with settings like gamma?

I truly would like to understand what is happening. When we compare the specs of my old monitor with the last one that I returned, they are so similar that it's very weird that one is normal but the other one is so difficult to stare. People think we are crazy man.

daniel_mate

Patoli Your model is 2021. What I've saw is that this hell started around 2018.

I think the hell started 2011-2012. Win Vista with default ClearType font (then most tech people learnt what is font anti aliasing), moving from LCD/TN to IPS/VA, moving from CCFL to LED back light, MAC discontinued TN laptop monitors (tho that was 2009-10 I think), pushing for higher brightness (just a marketing thing), more colors support (wide gamut, vivid colors bs), changes in drivers/dithering (I think first complains were with Intel)…

Patoli

I noticed something based on someone here out there about antiglare coating.

On my P2317H and old Samsung monitor turned off with a window, a room lamp or even a flashlight from phone the light scatters well and don't bother.

When I turn on the monitors and try to read a text with a flashlight from phone pointed it doesn't bother too. I was used to use my monitor with big window on this side without any problems for years.

With P2423D turned off I noticed that it reflects the light from window different from P2317H. It's something more like a midterm between matte and glossy. Pointing the flashlight from the phone the light scatters but is more bright and in the center I can see the LED from the phone very bright.

So, I tried to read a text with the flashlight pointed to the screen and it bothers like hell. The eyes feels discomfortable and they seems to be distracted with this glare and need to be refocusing on the text. Something like that.

I would like to had the opportunity to test that on previous monitores that I returned. It seems that it can be one of the reasons of diconfort and maybe the main one.

EyeDiscomfortCertificate

Patoli Yeah, the coating can definetely be a problem. I own Benq PD2700u (still did not sell it, hopefully soon)
and it is generally an ok monitor if not for the terrible, worst I've seen antiglare film, which is very very grainy and this graininess makes the white light shimmering and blinding even at low brightness. I have some other LG 4k, which has a different problem, but the coating is better (still grainy, but not as much) and it does not blind me.

OTOH, you can try a standard advice: try a VA monitor. Some people report that VA is nicer on eyes, and I confirm it too (but effect is weak). VA are kinda terrible in many ways and nice in some other ways (especially for watching movies).

Patoli

EyeDiscomfortCertificate Yes, man. It's grainy, this is the word. It's weird and the very bright led reflection in the center is terrible.

I also asked to my fried to check and the said that his Dell notebook is like that, but his LG ultrawide IPS doesn't have like all old ones. I asked him to take to my home his ultrawide for me to see with my eyes.

I like VA, but it depends on panel. My Samsung TV is excellent without black smearing, but most of monitors are awful. Dark images are bad and black smearing is hell. And also, if the antiglare coating is one big reason for the problem even the VA monitor will have this problem.

EyeDiscomfortCertificate

Patoli No, for some reason VAs have often better coating and also due to higher contrast the coating deficiencies are not as obvious. But anyways, if VAs do not fit your requiremnts, yes you should avoid it.

BTW Dell 24 QHD is a more premium professional product, no wonder it has better picture quality. Generally higher end Dells have the best coating in terms of grain. But cheap 24 FHD Dells - who knows what they put there?

Patoli

EyeDiscomfortCertificate I can't understand that. S2721DGF, S2421HN and P2423D all different models with different prices and crap coating. I believe that this new type of coating has better light transmittance.

I would like to know if all monitors that use matte coating received this kind of coating post-2018.

Patoli

I asked for my brother to bring me his Dell VA panel SE2216H releases in 2015 and it was fine. Asked my friend to bring his LG Ultrawide 29WL500 releases in 2019 with IPS panel and it was ok. A little bit grainy the reflection but not near the P2423D.

I returned the P2423D and bought a LG Ultrawide 29UM69G that was released in 2019. I searched a lot of videos to see at least the reflection characteristics and found that 29WK600 from 2018 was more like the Dell that I returned and the one that I bought was like my previous Dell.

And that is it. The antiglare screen seems almost the same as my Dell and the image quality and characteristics not so distant. I've been using and no difficult on focusing, no strain, no eye pain, no headache and stuffs like that.

Something very weird has been happening since 2018. I don't believe that is only the antiglare screen but it plays a role. I solved my problem for now with 2017 stuff but next time I doubt that I will have another chance. I would like to figure out what are the problems and how can I discover before I bought.

BlasterFX

Hello

Sorry to bother you, I saw a comment that you made and got me confused

Patoli I returned the P2423D and bought a LG Ultrawide 29UM69G that was released in 2019. I searched a lot of videos to see at least the reflection characteristics and found that 29WK600 from 2018 was more like the Dell that I returned and the one that I bought was like my previous Dell.

And that is it. The antiglare screen seems almost the same as my Dell and the image quality and characteristics not so distant. I've been using and no difficult on focusing, no strain, no eye pain, no headache and stuffs like that.

You bought the LG Ultrawide 29UM69G and what happend?

P2423D similar to 29WK600 and P2317H similar to 29UM69G is this what you're saying?

Here is my story: mnqrKI6.jpeg (2708×2805) (imgur.com) I posted this in 2020...

Then to continue, I sold it, bought 1 AOC VA 2020 CQ27G2 ( returned ) and a Lenovo G32qc-30 VA late 2022 model and returned it recently. Now I stick to my old tv glossy monitor.

Patoli

daniel_mate Maybe. Back these days I never experienced that. I faced some monitors and different systems but I never imaginated that I would suffer something like this.

wlmsn

daniel_mate My 2011 Macbook has a TN in it and it works fine, makes me wonder if IPS is the problem but some on here say theyve had problems with new TN panels too I guess

daniel_mate

wlmsn Probably nobody of us expected this to happen 🙂 I'm with this issue for ~9y. Over the years I realized that glare and high contrast are my main problems, refresh/flicker irrelevant. TN being the oldest technology has the worst contrast, washed out colors, lowest brightness etc. I've tried lot of different monitors in the recent years and for me nothing compares to TN, tho even between TN models some feel better than others (I think mostly due the brightness or type of LEDs they use).

Weird example for me is I've been using iPhones exclusevily for the last decade, I can't tolerate them however once I apply Skinomi mate skin on them, I have no problems. It feels like it replaces their display with a TN one 😃 No more glare and it reduces the contrast, has grainy texture, colors became washed out, it almost blends with the environment like a paper, feels like e-ink display

Patoli

The problem is not the panel but the timeline. I used all kind of technologies without problem. Even TN is in the same vibe looking for more brightness, colors, refresh rate and everything else. Glare was not a problem for me because I use since always smartphones with front glass and glass screen protector, my TVs are glossy and semi glossy. It seems that this grainy scattering of light that recent monitors are using is that what bothers me.

One point that the fellow friend touched is that refresh rate or even flickering is not relevant and that is true for me. My previous monitor was 60Hz with 6 bit + FCR didn't bothered me. Before that most of us used monitors and TVs with flickering and it was OK.

The thing is crazy for me to buy something released in 2017 to solve my problem. The future will be a real trouble.

Patoli

BlasterFX It was exactly like my Dell P2317H from 2016. No eye strain, no problem of focusing, same kind of reflection.

But it last until yesterday. I updated my Windows 11 to 22H2 and at the moment that the Windows started I noticed something different, My eyes got tired quickly and had some eye pain. It's defficult to even stare.

mike

Patoli Have you tried patching/covering one eye?

Patoli

mike Yes, for a short period of time. I didn't feel anything special.

machala

Patoli

mike

I have to say that recently I realized that Mike's been right all the time, the problem is in us. But patching one eye had no effect on me so I took Mike's wonderful idea to another level: I am now patching both eyes! No eye strain! Problem solved!

Patoli

machala I have to say. Part of the problem is us because most of people don't care about monitor, GPU, driver, Windows or whatever. But something changed hardware and software level that nobody can explain. It was ridiculous see in other topic that even Microsoft people suffered with strain after updating to 22H2 version.

machala

Patoli
Yes, and that's exactly the reason why I will never accept the problem is us. There was a change, there is a difference how things are today compared to the past. We are more sensitive, yes, for others the problem does not get past their pain point. However, I do not believe the problem is non-existent for many other people as well. They probably suffer, but are able to endure it somehow. But it does not mean it won't have drastic effects on their health over longer periods of time. The problem should be exposed to media, I just don't know how to do it.

For me the final proof is my wife: she never felt ANY of the issues I had previously (she was even kind of making fun of me), but in recent years she's started saying for instance that "this screen's picture is not as pleasant to look at as the old one". I of course see very clearly that there seems to be flicker and the picture is terrible. For her, it's just unpleasant. Something's happening, that's for sure.

RobC

machala I have very clear that the main reason is some change in the backlight emission on the new displays, because it cause me not only eye strain but also skin pain. I think it is due to a much higher intensity of the light, specially with oled and PWM screens, where we always receive the maximum brightness of the displays during a percentage of the time. That level may exceed the pain threshold of the most photosensitive people. I could stay in front of old displays for days without any pain. Eyes sense light level on a logarithmic basis, so the peak brightness can be 100 times or more the lowest we perceive when we set it to darkest.

Patoli

machala All of know that suffer from it know that something changed, probably more than just one thing and we all have different problems in different degrees.

What you said is true somehow. I know people that put brightness at minimum level and reading mode. The image quality is terrible. If the person does that with a very good and expensive monitor he has a problem and doesn't know yet.

machala

RobC

Not true, I see unstable picture on the same screen (old monitors) when I use newer graphics cards (and motherboards seem to have impact on this as well). Apart from other people that are getting "symptoms" after some time of use, I, in some cases, immediately see the picture is unstable.

I'm not saying backlight cannot be problematic, but it's definitely not the main cause for me.

Patoli

RobC That makes everything more confuse.

If the problem was just monitor the focus would just be them. But the problem is that changing Windows version, Gpu driver that are software simply can screw with everything.

That is very problematic because we never know what thing can cause strain and we feel insecure. As I said, I updated Windows and that ruined everything even with a monitor that didn't bother me. I rolled back and everything was back to normal. The same display with sabe back light, same subpixels and all the stuffs. What Windows as software could do to cause strain instantaneously? That's crazy.

One funny thing. Today I just changed the RX 6600 to a RTX 3070 that is a big change but nothing significantly happened. I was very insecure expecting that something could go wrong but even changing AMD for Nvidia with different technologies and different drivers was ok. That is also crazy. I'm sure that if I update Windows it will be screwing everything again.