AgentX20

Sadly, I am still getting bad eye strain.

I did try reflashing both VBIOS with the same version so see if that helped but no joy there.

I have one stupid, weakly reasoned idea 🙁

Reflash the MB BIOS (not VGA) at least to the same version. Some people in this forum claimed that flashing the MB BIOS to an older version helped them. I assume that it could have helped them not to reflash the old version firmware, but the flashing procedure itself (this is based on my old experience, when the firmware update procedure could additionally clear the service areas of the BIOS, like DMI...)

This is a very big assumption for modern UEFI BIOS, but I have no other assumptions: where which ones can be saved settings when completely reinstalling the OS.

To be completely sure of the purity of the flashing, it would be a good idea to buy a clean BIOS chip and flash it on a hardware programmer (this is a lot of trouble, don't go down this path if you haven't done something like this before). This may be necessary, since I am almost sure that updating the BIOS in the standard way is does not provide a 100% guarantee of rewriting all UEFI modules/areas. I don’t know if I was able to convey the main idea with my English...

      glvn To be completely sure of the purity of the flashing, it would be a good idea to buy a clean BIOS chip and flash it on a hardware programmer (this is a lot of trouble, don't go down this path if you haven't done something like this before). This may be necessary, since I am almost sure that updating the BIOS in the standard way is does not provide a 100% guarantee of rewriting all UEFI modules/areas. I don’t know if I was able to convey the main idea with my English...

      You're not crazy. I know for a fact in some cases internal settings of the firmware can be persistent across supposed resets, so I wouldn't be surprised if software based flashing doesn't clear everything either.

          JTL

          in some cases internal settings of the firmware can be persistent across supposed resets

          is this fact from the "world of x86" hardware?

          what year is it approximately? (UEFI or BIOS)

          • JTL replied to this.

              glvn is this fact from the "world of x86" hardware?

              Yes

              what year is it approximately? (UEFI or BIOS)

              Hard to say. I think it's a generic property of certain UEFI BIOS's, so starting sometime past 2010 would be my best guess.

                glvn Reflash the MB BIOS (not VGA) at least to the same version.

                I'm not optimistic but it's worth a shot. Thanks for the suggestion.

                • glvn replied to this.

                    @AgentX20 Oh boy do I feel you mate. You cannot belive how much I wish I could go back to that day when I stuck that wrecked 970 into my system. My life has been a total wreakage since then. And a huge peice of advice DO NOT STICK ANY OTHER CARD IN THAT SYSTEM. Every card I have put in that system now dithers even if I put it in aonther system!! You will be stuck in a cycle like me infecting card after card, PC after PC. I have tried every possible BIOS version that works with my CPUs on my PC and the horrific dithering is still there. I am convinced that there is now one and only one solution and that is to buy the exact same mobo and vga and replace my infected ones. I do not know what the fuck NVIDIA has done, how the fuck they have made this shit stick so hard in our systems. I messaged them again the other day about this issue and begged them to give me a solution. I even begged them to just tell what in my PC has gotten infect so I could replace it. They no longer even respond. The issue was marked as "researching" for weeks and then it just got flared as "unresolved" without even a word of reply.

                    async I have tried all that mate. Nothing worked. different PC with different power supply, different screen, different outlet, ….

                      first, a quick Google search showed the presence of the entity NVRAM in UEFI BIOS(not CMOS)

                      NVRAM is a special data area that stores those UEFI variables that have the Non-Volatile attribute set. The most popular variables of this kind are Setup, which stores most of the current settings from the BIOS Setup

                      you can try to view these variables from EFI SHELL, http://www.opslib.com/2012/01/efi-shell-commands.html

                      dmpstore     -- Displays all NVRAM variables

                      set         -- Displays, creates, changes or deletes

                      default         -- Sets, Resets, or Clears default NVM values

                      pci         -- Displays PCI devices or PCI function config space

                      maybe the names of the variables will tell you something about setting dithering..

                      and secondly (for example), the AFUDOS flashing utility has an additional key /N - clear NVRAM

                      This is not an instruction manual, the utilities for flashing and the procedures for flashing the firmware itself are very different for different MB

                        glvn

                        Are you implying it's possible to stop dithering by changing nvram variables ?

                        • glvn replied to this.

                            Liberator005

                            I'm trying to logically understand where the dithering setting can be saved if a clean reinstallation of the operating system does not help with this (and reflashing the VBIOS too).

                            NVRAM - suitable place for this

                            AgentX20

                            "Load BIOS defaults" or ClearCMOS in modern UEFI BIOS should perform some kind of cleaning of the nvram, but I’m not sure that a complete cleaning of this area is performed. You can try this before reflashing MB bios.

                            "I am still getting bad eye strain" Is there this feeling on the UEFI BIOS setup screen?

                                  glvn

                                  Maybe the dithering setting is just hardwired in the gpu hardware ?

                                  Though if the software "ditherig" works (at least with intel gpus), it must be changing the setting somewhere. Could the software "ditherig" have access to nvram values ?

                                  • glvn replied to this.

                                      BloodyHell should sell their machine, and start over from scratch with a different machine.

                                      Liberator005

                                      Maybe the dithering setting is just hardwired in the gpu hardware ?

                                      Maybe … BUT, AgentX20 say:

                                      (Win 10 1511, 970 card and driver version 391.55). Now this has been a good strain-free setup for a long time now

                                      I've got backups…

                                      just this one time I'd try a newer driver… 411 something… uh-oh eye strain feelings detected

                                      Next, I rolled back with a bare metal restore from backup. And… it STILL felt off.

                                      I've now done a ground up OS installer rebuild of my PC - exact same hardware and using the same Win 10 1511 OS installer as was working OK for me before. … Sadly, I am still getting bad eye strain.

                                      I did try reflashing both VBIOS with the same version so see if that helped but no joy there.

                                      …seems like dithering was not originally hardwired

                                      This is just my guess, but this is how I imagine the sequence of changing dithering as a variable for the programmer:

                                      a) the initial value of the variable from the video bios (or video chip hardware), in old cards is not set or is set as OFF

                                      b) a variable in the uefi nvram of the motherboard, the initial value is inherited from point a) or is forcibly set to ON by “new” motherboards because it is useful for “image beauty”. This can try to explain the fact that “good” video cards perform “good” on old MBs but “bad” on new ones (including even before loading the OS).

                                      c) a graphics pipeline consisting of the OS(version), graphics driver, DWM, registry, color profile settings and M$ knows what else…. Or perhaps it inherits the initial dither value from b), or perhaps new operating systems are simply forced to be set to ON for “image beauty” on modern cheap (6-bit) monitors. This can try to explain why dithering is enabled more often on “new” OS/drivers. Why the state of the variable is then stored in b), (if this is at all possible), I cannot explain. This is all despite the fact that MS/Nvidia technical support denies the very fact of dithering.

                                      .. too many "perhaps" (

                                            Liberator005 Could the software "ditherig" have access to nvram values ?

                                            as far as I understand - NO

                                            this software only changes the state of the current graphics pipeline( point c) ), and only until the next reboot (or video mode change??)

                                            p.s. "access to nvram values" from os/driver - just my guess, but how else can you explain the persistence of dithering after a complete reinstallation of the OS?

                                                glvn

                                                glvn p.s. "access to nvram values" from os/driver - just my guess, but how else can you explain the persistence of dithering after a complete reinstallation of the OS?

                                                Indeed. Or does it change something in the vbios. But apparently AgentX20 tried reflashing the vbios with no effect. Well, if that's the case maybe changing the nvram values will do something (is it possible and easy to change nvram values ?).

                                                      First off, I have to say that for me the ditheting is also there in the BIOS screen and I am not saying this just from getting eyestrain because I now have a microscope and I have recorded the dithering.

                                                      Here's the video I recorded of my PC dithering (this exact dithering is there both in BIOS and also any OS I have installed):

                                                      https://youtube.com/shorts/5YmCl4NVrB0?si=HOucTdqZxj74wWgw

                                                      And I also want to add that its by far the most horrific degree of dithering I have personally observed with my microscope on any device :"(.

                                                      This stuff about NVRAM is really interesting. this must be the key.

                                                      I am pretty sure there is something thats getting written to the mobo that does not get effected with BIOS updates.

                                                      glvn a) the initial value of the variable from the video bios (or video chip hardware), in old cards is not set or is set as OFF

                                                      b) a variable in the uefi nvram of the motherboard, the initial value is inherited from point a) or is forcibly set to ON by “new” motherboards because it is useful for “image beauty”. This can try to explain the fact that “good” video cards perform “good” on old MBs but “bad” on new ones (including even before loading the OS).

                                                      This is exactly what I'm thinking too. And I also think the reason that we cannot set it OFF after it goes on is because no software or hardware command has ever been defined to tell the card to turn the dithering OFF. If it turns ON on a card theres no command defined ever to set it OFF again.

                                                          Liberator005 Yes I too tried reflashing 2 of my cards vBIOSs but it didn't do anything. I even tried flashing the vBIOS of a different card onto my GT1030 but that didn't help either.

                                                          I also really desparetly want to know if there is a way to change stuff in NVRAM or to factory restore it. My mobo is an x470-f.

                                                            Very important to consider that the eyes also change how they respond. From February 2022 to Dec 2022 I was not able to tolerate any screen, except my old Lenovo x280. Suddenly in January after a year of patching, I started to notice that I don't get any strain anymore from the TV's or mobile phone I use.

                                                            Now I can even use Honor Magic Pro 5 without any strain.

                                                            So it's not always that the devices change or there is a change in the software. The eyes change how they respond.

                                                            Though I have zero idea what caused my eyes to malfunction and what brought them back and even got them to a level that is better than before. The only thing is the tadalafil that removed the last bit of strain with the Honor.

                                                            glvn I reflashed my motherboard BIOS to two different versions (the same as is there now and a newer version) and after loading defaults, I still have the terrible eye strain…

                                                            And of course I've already tried reflashing the VBIOS (both copies on the card).

                                                            Argh…

                                                                dev