Ranked on a 1-10 scale based on symptom severity. All laptops running Ventura unless otherwise specified. All using default display settings. MBA 13" M1 -- Instant eyestrain and nausea. (10/10 I only used this for a few minutes. Brutal) MBA 13" M2 -- Delayed eyestrain, no nausea. (6/10 I used this for a week. The eyestrain starts off mild and increases over time. I can only use it for 15-30 minutes before it's too painful. Not sustainable for long-term use.) MBA 15" M2 -- Instant eyestrain and nausea. (9/10 I only used this for a few minutes. Much worse than the 13" version.) MBP 14" M3 -- Instant eyestrain and nausea. (9/10 I only used this for a few minutes. Very uncomfortable.) MBP 13" M2 -- Mild eyestrain, no nausea. (3/10 I used this 1.5 hours daily for 6 days. No major issues using the preinstalled Ventura. HOWEVER -- when I upgraded to Sonoma, it was immediately unusable. I can only use this machine running Ventura.) MBP 14" M1 Pro -- Mild eyestrain, no nausea. (2/10 I used this 2-3 hrs daily for 10 days. Used for up to 5 hours in one day with no major issues using the preinstalled Sonoma. HOWEVER - when I downgraded to Ventura, the eyestrain kept getting worse. I can only use this machine running Sonoma.) MBP 16" M2 Pro-- Instant eyestrain, mild nausea. (8/10 I only used this for a few minutes. Could be a 9/10 or 10/10 but I'm unwilling to find out.) MBP 16" M1 Pro -- Mild eyestrain, no nausea. (2/10 I have only used this for 1 hour so far, seems not too bad. Running Sonoma.) Most recent update: 12/28/23

Sonnis If you are desperate, I can use the MacBook Air 15 M2 by taking a drug called fluxarten. In my case 5mg per day is enough and I can work.

Your post matches up with my experience with these models as well. I haven't tried the M3 Pro yet or the M2 15" Air but otherwise spot on.

I've tried most of these and found them to match up to my findings as well. The worst for me were 14 and 16" MBP, then m1 air, then m2 air 15", then the best was m2 13" air (still not great as a daily driver). I have not tried m2 pro 13". I eventually gave up on macbooks, sold my units and bought a Thinkpad x1 carbon and it is 10x better than any Mac I've used in the last 5 years. I really did not want to give up MacOS but I was getting severe symptoms and now I just wish I made the jump sooner because I'm pretty sure I suffered some permanent damage over the last few years without being away of what was happening. Thanks for sharing your results!

Would you mind sharing the exact specs of the M2 Pro that you have? I'm on an Intel Mac right now but I've been thinking recently that I'm gonna have to upgrade at some point…

I'm testing as many MacBooks as possible. Here are the results.

MAS-76

Great post thank you! +1 for sharing the specs of your M2 Pro 13". I too am still on an Intel Mac (2015 pro) and badly need to upgrade.

Sonnis

devilgrove It's the base model 2022 13" MacBook Pro M2, 8GB, 512GB running Ventura.

The other machine I'm having success with so far is the 2021 14" MacBook Pro M1, 16GB 512GB running Sonoma.

They both have a different "feel" to my eyes and brain, but so far I have been able to adjust to each one.

Oddly enough I can't use the 13" with Sonoma or the 14" with Ventura.

async

Did you attempt to run the with forced low power / high power mode? Or simply with power supply vs low battery,

With ProMotion the framerate it gets capped at 60 hz in low power. What application you run also makes a difference on what framerate it runs at. For example if you have some constant overlay that changes it uses a stable 120hz instead of going up and down. This can be observed with Quartz Debug from Additional Tools for Xcode.

Sonnis

async No I didn't. All my testing is just using the OS and Safari, letting the battery run down with default settings.

asus389

You mean the M2 MBP 13 (with the touch bar) that was recently discontinued and replaced by the M3 MBP 14 base model? Do you notice a difference with the touch bar enabled/illuminated or off? I think the touch bar and keyboard backlight uses PWM even if the screen does not.

Sonnis

Yes that's the one. I did not turn off the Touch Bar during testing. I am not sure if PWM is my issue, it may just be one small component. I actually returned the 13" because I found a model that worked even better for me, the M1 MBP 14".

Lauda89

Sonnis M1 MBP 14"? are you sure? I think it doesn't exist. Maybe it's the M1 PRO?
Thank you 🙂

Sonnis

Lauda89 Yes, I will clarify the OP.

cyclops

I've bought and returned numerous laptops due to eye strain among other things.

M1 Macbook Air: eye strain, also a burning smell. I was using macOS.

M2 Macbook Air 13: not much eye strain. I was running Asahi Linux.

M2 Macbook Air 15: enormous eye strain. Returned it after only 2 days. I was using macOS. Also, the SSD produced a whine sound when accessed.

M2 Macbook Pro 13: probably the least eye strain. I was running Asahi Linux.

2015 Macbook Pro 13: some eye strain, using older macOS.

Asus 24" monitor: no automatic brightness control, so I have to change brightness level 10x per day. Lots of eye strain due to excessive brightness.

LG ultrawide 29" monitor made circa 2014: no eye strain at all, with automatic brightness control. Used it instead of looking at 2015 MBP screen.

Thinkpad X13 Gen 2: definitely eye strain.

Other Thinkpads: no much eye strain but lots of fan noise generally.

rpozarickij

cyclops Could you tell the model name of the LG monitor that doesn't cause you eye strain?

magi44ken

cyclops Thanks for the sharing the list. When you said other Thinkpad models works for you. Can you list the models?

cyclops

rpozarickij It was one that I bought in 2014, so it's probably impossible to buy today. It was probably this one: https://www.lg.com/us/support/products/documents/29UM55%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf

I would also mention I once tried the 13" Dasung e-ink display with Linux. The contrast was not great and the build quality was poor. I think I received a pre-owned screen sold as new. I returned it.

GregAtkinson

Sonnis Have you considered using a light detector to see if there's a correlation between the amount of measured flicker and the severity of your symptoms?

Lauda89

GregAtkinson The MBA 15" is flicker free and no one of us can use it! 🙁

GregAtkinson

Lauda89 One thing I'm finding is that the review sites seem to focus on PWM (which is a problem for me) but they don't focus on flicker (which is also a problem for me). Here's an image from a Benq monitor that has no PWM but does flicker. I had assumed since the monitor doesn't have any PWM that it wouldn't give me headaches. But unfortunately it does give me headaches and the flicker seems to be the smoking gun.

The flicker is difficult to see unless you're looking for it. This image is zoomed to 30 ohms (roughly 8x power) and on AC coupling so you can more easily see the flickering.

KM

Yes, that is currently a big problem. The companies have finally started to care about PWM, but they don't care much about remaining flicker. It is as if they think that no one would be affected by smaller flicker. There is little effort to produce truly constant light output. They label their products as "flicker-free" when there is measurable ripple that still causes eye strain and headaches. The current flicker standards don't help, as their thresholds of both flicker frequency and flicker percentages are set way too low. Progress in this area is unbelievably slow.

For example, I see it on the current TV I'm using as a monitor: 22 kHz, < 1%* ripple, usable. But when I switch inputs, the backlight readjusts itself to 22 kHz, 3-5%* ripple. That's too much already - symptoms within seconds. The current flicker standards consider these values "safe" by a large margin. The research data the standards are based on must be completely wrong. It seems they didn't ask persons that are sensitive enough.
*(Flicker percentages only roughly measured, as "(a - b) / a", a formula which produces higher values than those found in the standards papers.)

Another problem is that some LED backlights (or even LED room lighting, while we're at it) may take several minutes to "warm up", during which they flicker much more than later on. If you come across a flicker review it is never clear if they took this into account. The problem here is that symptoms can be caused instantly and persist for hours. A safe LED (back)light needs to have instant stable light output.

If anyone wants to measure with equipment, have a look at our oscilloscope thread: https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide

cyclops

I tend to think the best solution is the disuse of LCD and OLED displays.

I recently had to sell my Samsung S21-FE because my eyes couldn't focus on the text on the OLED screen. The replacement phone, an iPhone 11, has an LCD that is comparatively easy to read.

But I think eventually e-ink displays will have to become the norm, driven by video cards that doesn't produce flickering of any kind.

Also, I just found this article: https://www.aelo.com.au/blogs/eye-health/digital-eye-strain-dry-eyes

GregAtkinson

cyclops Yeah, I've almost resigned myself to just limping along with what I have until the e-ink displays are a little better and a little cheaper. Almost. :-)

magi44ken

Espers Do you have 2023 model of Thinkpad X1 Carbon?

MAS-76

Sonnis Doing some additional testing on my own. Gut feeling to start, for you was or MBP 16" M1 Pro Sonoma or MBP 14" M1 Pro Sonoma the best? Or both truly equal?

Or by chance have you found 1/10 option! Seems like we're all in the same boat, but I'm desperate to upgrade as my 2015 Intel MBP is perfect on the eyes though not cutting in on power/battery anymore.

Thanks!