I'm testing as many MacBooks as possible. Here are the results.

Yes, that is currently a big problem. The companies have finally started to care about PWM, but they don't care much about remaining flicker. It is as if they think that no one would be affected by smaller flicker. There is little effort to produce truly constant light output. They label their products as "flicker-free" when there is measurable ripple that still causes eye strain and headaches. The current flicker standards don't help, as their thresholds of both flicker frequency and flicker percentages are set way too low. Progress in this area is unbelievably slow.

For example, I see it on the current TV I'm using as a monitor: 22 kHz, < 1%* ripple, usable. But when I switch inputs, the backlight readjusts itself to 22 kHz, 3-5%* ripple. That's too much already - symptoms within seconds. The current flicker standards consider these values "safe" by a large margin. The research data the standards are based on must be completely wrong. It seems they didn't ask persons that are sensitive enough.
*(Flicker percentages only roughly measured, as "(a - b) / a", a formula which produces higher values than those found in the standards papers.)

Another problem is that some LED backlights (or even LED room lighting, while we're at it) may take several minutes to "warm up", during which they flicker much more than later on. If you come across a flicker review it is never clear if they took this into account. The problem here is that symptoms can be caused instantly and persist for hours. A safe LED (back)light needs to have instant stable light output.

If anyone wants to measure with equipment, have a look at our oscilloscope thread: https://ledstrain.org/d/312-homemade-oscilloscope-to-detect-pwm-diy-guide

cyclops Yeah, I've almost resigned myself to just limping along with what I have until the e-ink displays are a little better and a little cheaper. Almost. :-)

cyclops Thanks for the sharing the list. When you said other Thinkpad models works for you. Can you list the models?

Espers Do you have 2023 model of Thinkpad X1 Carbon?

Sonnis Doing some additional testing on my own. Gut feeling to start, for you was or MBP 16" M1 Pro Sonoma or MBP 14" M1 Pro Sonoma the best? Or both truly equal?

Or by chance have you found 1/10 option! Seems like we're all in the same boat, but I'm desperate to upgrade as my 2015 Intel MBP is perfect on the eyes though not cutting in on power/battery anymore.

Thanks!

Lauda89 wow! Are you sure it is a good idea to take this pretty strong medicine on a daily basis just to use the laptop?

I just bought PWM free MBP 15” 2019 32GB RAM, 4TB SSD less than $1000 and I am absolutely happy with its performance.

Dithering can be disabled on the Intel as well as Radeon card. I prefer to use the Radeon card.

NewDwarf Dithering can be disabled on the Intel as well as Radeon card. I prefer to use the Radeon card.

What about Apple Silicon? Did you ever try this @NewDwarf ?

NewDwarf how do you disable dithering on Mac ?

NewDwarf +1 on that, you said you bought a “PWM free MBP 15” 2019” - did you disable the dithering somehow (and if so please share!)?

I tried the 2019 MBP and it still strained my eyes a lot, but I had only fiddled withe the settings and hadn’t been able to disable anything.

Please let us know what you did.

This is interesting. I've tried a few and my results are pretty much inverse to yours. The M1 Pro 16" gave me terrible eye strain, the 15" M2 is all good and I didn't have any issue with the M1 Air.

I think for me it's the mini LED tech. OLED also doesn't agree with me, but if I plug away I eventually get used to it. Not sure how good that is for eye health, but eh.

One thing I did notice is that once I had eye strain, it took a while to go away, and depending on the day, any screen could upset my eyes for a while. So it can be really hard to know what's what.

I've still got the 16" in the closet, so while I've not got any strain issues, I'm going to upgrade it from Ventura to Sonoma, to see if that changes anything.

I've tried MacBook Air M2 15", but couldn't use it due to strain (for me around 8/10). I returned it soon after purchasing it.

Several months after that there was a chance to try out a MacBook Pro 14" M2 Pro at work and I was pleasantly surprised by how tolerable its screen was. It's not 0/10, but it's about 1-2/10 for me.

I actually got the same model for my personal use, because it was noticeably easier on the eyes than my old 2018 13" MBP (which I was using mainly with an external monitor). Interestingly, after turning on the new laptop I got worried because I felt more eye strain than with the work model even when I had both laptops side by side. Fortunately, the strain from the personal laptop subsided (my eyes adapted?) and they now feel identical to me. This might be evidence that even identical models aren't always truly identical (I've seen this already mentioned in the forum by someone).

jordan If you have the Intel MBP, please read my previous message.

ryans No. Since last time I didn't look for the solution for the Apple Silicon.

Probably, this is because I don't have motivation to do it as I use the Intel MBP.

Sorry for that.

Sonnis

I just wanted to just say thank you so much for sharing your findings. I know it takes a lot of time to test and report back with such great detail. This is extremely helpful. I can’t figure out what is going on with me, but it is nice to know that I’m not alone in this.

rpozarickij I am so glad you said that! My company found one identical to my personal (which works great but I am not supposed to use) after two failed attempts with new models - pro and air. The only difference between the laptop they sent me vs my personal is that it is running Sonoma. My personal is on Ventura. I have them side-by-side and there is a difference. I talked to Apple Store in Denver and they said that the OS shouldn’t matter, and that I was the only one that has reported any vision issues at all to them. They weren’t denying I had issues, I don’t mean to suggest that, but they were confused as well. They suggested I see an optometrist. I did that, and no issues. I thought I was going insane over here.

NewDwarf Wonderful!! I've actually run across that kernel and wasn't able to install before. I'm going to get my 2019 MBP back and try the above exactly as you write.

Question (sorry if this is obvious) - I though the MBP 15'' 2019 used both graphics cards, switching automatically as needed. Do I need to "disable" the Intel card entirely as I think you're recommending (and if so how?) or follow steps 1 and 2 above, that will disable the dithering on both cards, and I should be good to go?

Thanks again. If this can work you're a life-saver!!