photon78s

I can ask around on the telegram group. The different windows builds seem to be a hit or a miss to some.
One guy said these were ok with him "21H2 LTSC, 20H2, 2004" while "1909 was the worst one."
Microsoft added ACM sometime after 1809 I forgot which build that was and with each build it's tweaked differently so some are okay with certain ones while some aren't. 1507/1511 are the most safe but you would need to modify drivers 100% to make them work with that old of win10. I think ltsc/ltsb is just used for longer security updates.

I did find this 1809 DL but unsure if it's the same, maybe that update can be installed to it? https://archive.org/details/win-10-1809-oct-v-2-english-international-x64

    Btw if you install Intel drivers make sure to always use "ditherig" to remove dithering from Intel drivers. This could be why it's still a problem I don't think I mentioned that earlier. Just color control for Nvidia I think Is all that I mentioned.
    https://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp.html#ditherig

    Direct DL:
    https://kawamoto.no-ip.org/henteko/myapp/ditherig21.zip

    There's also a GitHub post with it's code 😃

      jordan

      I discovered something interesting with possibly pixel inversion. I re-tested the T480s yesterday night and discovered again some flickering but it looked different than before. The flickering is between linear columns of pixels and the pattern is different but hard to describe. Reinstalled the whole OS and updates with MS basic adapter several times to no avail. This morning and without changing anything in software, I could not discover the flickering anymore. I suspect I may be seeing inversion that has to do with the charge level of the computer (but I didn't charge the computer overnight) or a "cooling off" period/internal monitor temperature/duration the panel has been on. Do you know?

          photon78s that's interesting.. I don't know a lot about pixel inversion so I'm not exactly sure unless if room temp can have an affect? Maybe even any USB devices could possibly cause some sort of electrical interference too? 🤔

            jordan

            Thanks for the link. My question would be if certain low quality panels like probably on the T480s flicker more and more over the course of the day due to poor manufacturing tolerances/design and thus contributing to the computer work fatigue over the work day (you feel fine in the morning and later more and more fatigued as the screen silently increases the flicker to add to that fatigue).

            Hopefully in your case you don't have to worry about this. I haven't noticed this yet with the 7i just the T480s. 😅

            Not exactly my case but interesting:

            Display Power: Why TFT LCD Needs Temperature Compensation

            However, cold temperatures cause the switch to turn on slower. This steals time (tΔth) to put through the picture
            information, see figure below. Less light comes through the filter glass and the contrast gets lower. Visible results
            are flickering and/or image sticking of the display.

                photon78s that could be it too. There are known better panels that someone I know uses on dell laptops. Maybe even a panel swap on t480s could be a good option. I hope I don't encounter that with the 7i haha. Not sure which is the most safe with the 60hz Microsoft driver or 240hz studio driver. I really need to start testing the 7i and other devices soon. Just feel stuck in this flare up I'm currently in which sucks!

                    photon78s These two sites show conflicting info?

                    I don't know about displaydb.com but as far as I know the owner of displayspecifiations.com is anonymous, and does not disclose how they obtain the information displayed on their site.

                        jordan

                        Have you tried using a cheap lossy video capture card (with chroma subsampling) or hdmi to usb converter and using OBS running on a safe win 1809 computer to view the unsafe computer running whatever bad gpu/driver and OS? The quality might be blurry but it might mask/alter the dithering so that it might be more physiologically tolerable? Perhaps remote in would be the better alternative.

                        I tried briefly with 1809 7i as the OBS computer connected a known dithering setup and it was blurry but this needs more experimentation as well.

                            photon78s I have not but this is something that I have thought about and others too on the telegram group. I think one guy actually created his own box to output basic 8bpc using a Arduino alternative or something. I know some other people say that the old steam link box (not the software but the actual old steam link wireless box) has stopped eye strain for them which might be doing what you are saying with the capture card. Obviously the capture card method would be better instead of wireless. I know elgato has quite a few capture cards. I'm not really sure what the chroma stuff is tbh but maybe some sort of compression can help smooth things out

                                jordan

                                Chroma subsampling reduces the color information but that is just an example I gave for being lossy. The key idea is if trying some form of compression or lack of faithfully reproducing the dithering can help physiologically.

                                UPerfect is generally responsive but I would be really surprised if they can have "true 10 bit" at that relatively low price.

                                    photon78s ohhh that makes sense I didn't know thats what it was. Could be something that could help maybe. I wonder how a 480Hz+ refresh rate monitor would be with dithering.

                                    I agree that's really cheap for true 10bit I bet it's 8+2frc. I mean if ViewSonic can't give us true 10bit (when advertised as true 10bit) then I doubt uperfect can.. but worth a shot I guess

                                      For reference here is what the 7i running 1809 iGPU with MS basic display adapter looks like under the microscope sampling a dark gradient area. All I see is the very high frequency camera noise flicker. Compare this with the other videos showing the slow motion alternating ramping of pixel brightness on the same panel but with latest discrete gpu drivers and newer OS.

                                      https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xcvt48x8goqf7fzn2v6zb/7i-windows-1809-camera-noise-flicker.mp4?rlkey=f72s7ht9w0b02wu7415yaqhy5&dl=0

                                      jordan

                                      Interesting. Don't understand the direct3d connection...

                                      I am running T480s with latest linux mint connected via hdmi to usb to the 1809 7i (I got tired of the panel intermittent "inversion" flickering as discovered previously). In OBS on the 7i, I turned everything to monochromatic and played around with the brightness (rez is 1920x1080 at 60Hz which is the max this cheap converter can support). Seems promising with the scope so far. Their is a lot of latency but still faster than e-ink.

                                      https://ibb.co/pJKd2qS

                                      I can't find the original link to my capture device but it is very similar to this one:

                                      https://www.amazon.com/LinkBand-Capture-Camcorder-Streaming-Nintendo/dp/B089ZWX5MY/ref=pd_lpo_sccl_1/135-3936352-6877654?pd_rd_i=B089ZWX5MY&psc=1

                                        dev