photon78s Anything else?

Preferably no fluctuations at all. The engineers should do the absolute best they can, with the best tech available. No marketing guy saying "no" if this means the device would cost $10 extra. If they do it the lazy way yet again, chances are we have yet another device that's causing sensitive people eye strain and headaches due to whatever tiny flicker remains. There's no room for laziness here.

Higher refresh rates do not necessarily mean less issues. They could even introduce them. The option 60 Hz should always remain (it probably will - just saying).

Spectrum should really be based on anything but White (O)LED technology. Because I believe that's what people who are sensitive to LED brightness have issues with (for whatever reasons). Though I think the spectrum issue can't be resolved without getting feedback from volunteers (test subjects). We have Quantum Dots and other technology available with vastly different spectra.

Ideally a manufacturer sends us their prototypes to check them out. I think having the most sensitive users here test prototypes would quickly provide new insight.

      KM

      No more excuses like "but this is how its always been done" and "that's what I learned in the engineering textbook" kind of thing. Some companies do a lot just to save a fraction of a cent.

      I see different comments with "gaming" versus 60Hz refresh rate with regards to inversion in particular. Yes, ideally no inversion at all but none of the drawbacks of OLED, etc. More generally, a modular system adaptable to different situations (environmental lightning, use case, and general state of health affecting eyestrain, a users pattern of eye movements) can be another approach (but very expensive).

      I heard a story years ago from a VR pioneer who commented on the hard or harsh lighting of the modern generation of computer displays and VR googles.

      They absolutely should get feedback from us. I hope the prototypes are not cherry picked best ones that manufacturing tolerances can produce.

      • JTL replied to this.

          photon78s I heard a story years ago from a VR pioneer who commented on the hard or harsh lighting of the modern generation of computer displays and VR googles.

          You wouldn't happen to be able to find it again?

              Hi guys good stuff. i’m planning to purchase the pro 7i.

              It comes with win 11 though. i’m no computer expert at this point in my life, is it possible to roll back to win 19 using the same product key? i’d like to use the build suggested here.

              i was originally planning to purchase the mac air m3 because of still color but giving up gaming and is a bit much though i do t game a lot at all.

              is the pro 7i with the omissions better than the mac in terms of eye strain?

                Dadab12

                Do you mean windows 10 1809? With that version, the included product key does not work. It is for windows 11 home only and windows 10 home.

                I still use the 7i even with windows 11 home edition but only at 240 fps screen refresh rate. I don't game but it is moderately safe for me subjectively. I don't like the WLED backlight because it still looks "harsh". The backlight flicker is decent but not completely free of micro-fluctuations. Then their is panel lottery to factor into your decision.

                You may want to wait a bit for updates on the Mac laptops and Stillcolor results.

                    photon78s

                    i see. so i’m gonna need to buy a win 10 license key?

                    anyhow, i’m not that fond of macos, but if it would be possible to use a pc entirely without the suffering then I guess it’s worth it as a strict work pc.

                    i’m however without a computer so i have to decide right now.

                        Dadab12

                        To clarify, you can run windows 10 home edition and it should work without having to buy a new activation key but I'm not sure about the dithering and driver issues with just windows 10 home. The windows 10 1809 in question here is windows 10 Enterprise LTSC which not activate without a new key.

                        Are you able to use linux mint? I've also had moderately good results with mint running on Thinkpad T480s with just the intel UHD 620 (not nvidia gpu version). I had to swap the panel it came with with the one here: https://www.panelook.com/B140QAN02.3_AUO_14.0_LCM_overview_33893.html
                        The problem with my panel is that I see flickering increase over time under the scope.

                          jordan

                          Yup, it does but my temp solution is to use the colored gel plastic (used for changing color temperature for filming, etc.) covered over the screen. Also, this way their is absolutely no risk of more dithering introduced by software.

                            So I agree that displays should not be televisions. My mistake was trying two Eizo monitors designed to help people make and color grade television shows and movies. Doh!

                            Subpixel layout is another factor to consider for eyestrain particularly with text. Again, their is a lack of consistency or lack of data at all on this matter.
                            https://www.displayninja.com/rgb-vs-bgr-subpixel-layout/

                            Read the review titled "Subpixel layout is BGR instead RGB!"
                            https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1425544-REG/eizo_cg319x_4k_bk_31_1_dci_4k_wide_screen.html/reviews

                            I have bought this monitor from Amazon.de (because I live in EU) with high hopes because I work in 3d Multimedia industry (3d rendering, color critical work etc.) but after 1 month of use I have noticed a strange phenomenon: the monitor started to develop some kind of convergence issue. From my knowledge I know there’s no such thing as old-school convergence on a high-end IPS monitor but after a closer look, looks like this “high-end” monitor have this problem. (See photo attached)

                            LCD pixels are actually made up of three sub-pixels. From left to right, those sub-pixels are red, green, blue, but in the case of this piece of junk the effect is so visible that nearly kills your eyes after you read and work with documents and even images.

                            After some serious digging, I have found out that this monitor has BGR subpixel layout. This affects very negatively to text clarity and there are no complete fixes for this “issue” yet…

                            Or one can flip the monitor so it is used inverted.

                            • KM replied to this.

                              photon78s One way or another, you can select the correct subpixel layout in modern operating system's font settings. If you use Windows, I guess it's still being done via ClearType Text Tuner.
                              This is only (not particularly) a font issue and only an issue if the fonts by default are both antialiased and the antialiasing is using subpixel rendering, AND for whatever reason the operating system ignored or failed to detect the monitor's subpixel layout in its EDID information.

                              Granted a badly programmed application could ignore all those settings on purpose, but that's not the monitor's fault.

                              photon78s Or one can flip the monitor so it is used inverted.

                              That can actually introduce eye strain, depending on how the graphics driver handles the flipping.

                                    KM

                                    Wording corrected based on your feedback. Yes, in Windows, ClearType is used to adjust font appearance and their are some github projects to help with this as well for Windows. My issue is with the lack of official documentation on this subpixel layout (unless product is reviewed on sites like rtings.com).

                                      photon78s It is for windows 11 home only.

                                      I ran win10 22h2 home single language instead of last win11, and BIOS key activated successfully. Originally w11 home single-language was pre installed on laptop

                                          photon78s

                                          I am testing thinkbook ultra 7 iGPU based now with w10 22h2 19045.4046 and there is pain in the temples, but very, very smoooooth at first time, not so strong compared to w10 21h2 and w10 2004 did. And still no paperlook ( which reference w10 1809 did )

                                            ordered the new lenovo legion 7 pro. really hope it doesn’t fuck my eyes.

                                            edit: it’s the 2024 model and i read that it supports 100% dci-p3? if that’s true does that mean the screen is different and may prove to be worse for the eyes?

                                              Dadab12

                                              Not sure. They can reuse the same panel and dci-p3 support is not anything special but as others have reported it might mean a more straining display.

                                                  dev