Hello, Since I still struggle to find any new setup that would work for me, I wanted to ask what computer/screen/OS do you use that you can work on at the moment? Mine is an old acer5820TG laptop, connected via VGA to VGA cable to ASUS PB238Q monitor, running Windows 7. HDMI connection (both HDMI to HDMI and HDMI to DVI) to the same screen gives me eyestrain, and regarding the laptop Im thinking of getting a used one somewhere for backup just in case, as this one is almost 7 years old and it shows. My phone is iPhone 4S with latest possible OS 9, surprisingly no trouble with this specific one even though its retina screen. Please share your setups. Also feel free to share where you are from, as Im curious if most people here are USA or actually all around the world. My country is Czech Republic. The reason for this is that maybe we can have a database of setups here that people can try when they need a new setup/phone.

martin I oddly have a 2015 Macbook Pro with AMD switchable graphics and can use out for hours on end after new medical treatment. Can also withstand PWM much better. I have a LG V20 phone running Android 7.0 (not sure of the exact version number) it works. BenQ XL2720Z with GTX 1070 is a bit uncomfortable. But I'm thinking it's more the screen then the GPU. I'm thinking of getting a 32" 1440p "monster" monitor soon now that my vision is improving.

Right now my best setup is GTX 970 -> Windows 7 (it matters to my symptoms) -> BenQ EW2750ZL. I haven't tested VGA vs HDMI so I just use VGA to be on the safe side. 90% of my screen time is spent on this setup. For movies and TV I use an HTPC with GTX 650 -> Windows 7 -> Panasonic ST60 plasma TV and that is also comfortable. This is probably the most comfortable setup but it's not that practical. iPhone 7 Plus is the best smartphone I've used in a long time. It still could be better but I can use it long enough to get what I need to done and then get out quickly (a couple of minutes) without causing a headache. iPad Air 1 used to be a really good device but now it is just average since I upgraded it to iOS 10. Average just like the iPhone 7 Plus, but maybe a bit worse. None is as comfortable as I would like though and are cumulative in their effects necessitating a complete break from screens for a few days every couple of weeks.

I use a GTX970, Windows 10 and Dell 2407 screen at home, and at work a 2013 Macbook Pro with Nvidia 650M with dual small Dell CCFL lcd screens. I also have a Dell 2410 monitor set aside, which is ok for me, for when my one of my 2407s expires. An iPad Air 2 is kinda OK for moderate stints, and my iPhone 6S is similar - usable but not bad for long sessions. TV-wise I have a 54" Panasonic plasma and it's great. What I do when it expires I dunno...

My PC, usable as of now: - BenQ EW2740L @ 0 brightness, 50 contrast - Dell OptiPlex 755 (doesn't really matter because of the separate graphics card) - Arch Linux - NVIDIA Quadro NVS 295 + DisplayPort to HDMI adapter - video driver: nouveau - browser: Chromium - Windows 10 for me is not usable anymore on this hardware setup since they upgraded something, so I switched to Linux My TV: - another BenQ EW2740L @ 15 brightness, 50 contrast - Edision "Progressiv Hybrid Lite" @1080p as DVB-C receiver, very usable - ODROID-C2 on Android 5.11 with Kodi (for video playback), very usable - Nintendo Wii + HDMI adapter, very slight eye strain over time - PlayStation 3 with noticeable eye strain (not solved yet) My usable phones so far: - OnePlus 3 @ 68/255 brightness (to avoid PWM) @ Android 7.0 (7.1 introduced strong eye strain), best screen I've ever looked at, I use it multiple hours daily - iPhone 4 @ iOS 6.0 (7 was unusable), it's dead now but worth to mention is that as I was told back then by other users in the Apple Forum's MacBook Pro eye strain thread I tried several iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S until I found one that (for whatever reason) was indeed very usable

What works for me: iPad Air (first generation) running iOS 10.3.3 set to lowest brightness with Night Shift always on the warmest color temperature. I can use this setup for hours with no eyestrain. LG E500 running Ubuntu 16.04 This is a ~5 year old laptop (I think it has a CCFL backlight but I'm not sure) I mainly use the command line and a command-line text editor (VIM) with gray text on a black background. This way I don't get eyestrain, but when reading black text on a white background I do get eyestrain. LG G4 forgot to mention my phone. It doesn't give me any eyestrain at all. What doesn't work for me: Dell P2412H connected to a Windows 10 Pro system (latest update) with a Geforce GTX 1070 graphics card. The only way I can use it (and still uncomfortably) is with brightness set all the way up, and contrast set almost all the way down (14%), and with a very very warm color temperature.

Home PC : Dell U2410 monitor, Windows 7 O/S, custom-built machine. Can use with minimal issues for 8-12 hours a day*** Work PC : Dell U2410 monitor, Windows 7 O/S, Optiplex 9010. Can use with minimal issues for 8-12 hours a day*** *** (as long as I follow the 20/20/20 rule and don't overdo it, or I'll get strained eyes and/or a headache) Cellphone : iPhone 6S+ with lowest brightness and Night Shift on constantly. Can use for the few minutes a day I need to. Only long reading sessions will cause issues. List of Intolerable LED monitors -- Dell P1913 -- Dell U2413 -- Dell U2713H (This is what my colleagues at work seem to use. The monitor list above will cause an immediate ache in the back of my eyeballs and a sharp pain deep in my head in < 1 minute of exposure...)

JTL Please what kind of treatment?

martin Cannabis oil. Canada. Wish I was trolling, but I'm not 🙂

JTL Is that the one with high THC or high CBD? My brother's girlfriend is on medical cannabis oil, and it made her chronic migraines go away without recurrence! Potentially amazing stuff! O_O

MagnuM half THC CBD. Makes me too stoned 😛 I can still program though. I don't drive so it's OK

What works for you, what do you use now without problems?

olgomar

Laptop: Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga 460 so long as the brightness is above 75% (I generally always have it maxed at 100%)

Monitor: Benq BL2710 2k as the primary monitor.

I am still not completely happy with the laptop and monitor though, but have had them without too many problems for the last 3 years or so.

Phone: LG v30+ which does not appear to give me headaches, (even though testing shows pwm with an unusual waveform) however it is uncomfortable to look at below 40% brightness, where the pwm becomes noticeable.

hpst

AGI I would like to stress that in the past I always judged MacBook Air impossible for my eyes, by inspecting displays of friends or at electronic shops. That is another bite of confusion for me, because normally I can immediately tell what does not suit me.

I find this sort of inconsistency so baffling. I spent like an hour in a store with a Matebook D as I wanted to try Rzen to rule out the "intel is bad" theory. It was fine in the store. I bought it...came home and didn't even use it for a day. When I turned it on I got terrible strain within minutes. I cannot explain this. At home I sit by a well lit window...or use incandescent lighting...so if anything it should be BETTER at home than in a store with flourscent tubes. I nearly bought a Macbook Air after a couple hours in Best Buy didn't bother me...but I was hesitant to spend more so waited. A week later in an Apple like 3rd party store just 3min on one strained me. I cannot explain this. Same OS and both stores with flourescent lighting etc.

At this point I am so nervous about displays in general I don't trust my own body as EVERYTHING seems to set off strain so I don't know what is caused by some tech issue, if anything, and what is anxiety/psychosomatic. Even my Kindle was giving me a headache the last time I used it and its NEVER bothered me. That just doesn't make sense. My old CCFL laptop strains me now too....not as much as new ones but still does. I don't get this.

si_edgey

hpst At this point I am so nervous about displays in general I don't trust my own body as EVERYTHING seems to set off strain so I don't know what is caused by some tech issue, if anything, and what is anxiety/psychosomatic.

I am 100% behind you on this one. I'm so confused as to what is the actual issue these days as I'm starting to think that my own anxiety about getting headaches and migraines is actually as strong a trigger as the screen I'm using. Sometimes I can use my Dell XPS 15 9560 for most of a day (with some breaks) and feel fine. Others it starts me on to a series of cluster headaches. I've wondered if switching between different screens relatively quickly might cause this - looking at my phone, the TV and then the laptop for example, but even with constant analysis of my own body I just can't explain why sometimes I'm triggered more heavily by the same tech than others.

I'm at the point where I feel envious of friends and my wife who can just sit on her phone all evening looking at Instagram without any pain, yet I'm unable to work or do the things that I enjoy such as gaming and music production without pain! I'm also concerned that persisting with a Macbook for 2 years has permanently damaged my eyes and this is why I am so sensitive now when only 8 years ago I used to do games development working on screens all day long before playing games all night and never get a headache. Now if I use screens for more than a few hours a day I'm almost guaranteed a headache the next day, which often develops into a series of migraines over several days.

Anyways, my working setup (which doesn't DEFINITEIVELY work but does mostly as long as I watch my hours):

Home Computer: Dell XPS 15 9560 running Windows 10 build 1511 + ditherig + Benq V2400W monitor - always gives strain without ditherig but I can use comfortably for a few hours (maybe even a day) with it running

Studio Computer: i7 8700 with GTX 760 running Windows 10 build 1511 + Benq V2400W monitor - extremely comfortable with no tweaking

Keep fighting the good fight everyone..

hpst

si_edgey I'm also concerned that persisting with a Macbook for 2 years has permanently damaged my eyes and this is why I am so sensitive now when only 8 years ago I used to do games development working on screens all day long before playing games all night and never get a headache.

I know its impossible not to worry and I do it too...but I really think this particular fear isn't very likely. If you have physical eye health issues they will impact every part of your life and will be discovered in eye exams...they wouldn't just manifest on certain displays. No rationalization for that makes sense without extreme reaching. I don't know about you but if I avoid displays for a while the strain and headaches go away so that's even more proof there is nothing wrong with me physically.

Things like "rodents lost retinal cells with blue light" sort of studies just fuel this fear and nothing helpful ever comes out of those anyway. If you've seen an eye doctor and don't have vision problems in every part of your life I think you can put that to bed as much as humanly possible.

KM

si_edgey Maybe the monitors differ somehow. I have two "flicker-free" BenQ EW2740L, and one of them is worse for my eyes. I measured them with my oscilloscope at the same brightness and found they both flicker pretty identically at both 60 Hz (probably the pixel refresh flicker) and 25 kHz. But there is also a third frequency: ~450 Hz on the worse one and ~800 Hz on the better one. Those monitors are not really flicker-free and flicker differently.

martin

si_edgey Could you please share how do you use the dell 9560 with the windows 10? How do you keep it from updating, is there a crack, or is it a cracked version? I had one before with old version of win and it was good, but I foolishly returned it.
Also was installing the older version on it easy?
I am considering getting one and trying it, but if it doesnt work id still need to return it as its quite expensive, so I must not mess it up.

si_edgey

hpst If you've seen an eye doctor and don't have vision problems in every part of your life I think you can put that to bed.

Thanks for this, I have had a few eye tests and none have found anything - my eyes are pretty much perfect. They probably thought I was weird for being a little disappointed.. :]

hpst

si_edgey Yeah it's disappointing not having an answer...even if that answer is not something we want to be true. I left my last eye doctor's visit sweaty and depressed from all the anxiety. My barrier now is deciding if this is technological or psychological....it's definitely amplified by the fear. Ruling out dithering as a global cause will help me here since that's the only technological theory left with any reasonable probability to it.

I've learned with other pains and symptoms that often if there is no discernable physical cause with thorough testing it's because there is no physical cause. A lot of people who had flourescent light problems back in the day didn't have them until someone mentioned the flickering etc...or it only bothered them at work in a job they hated but they were fine out having fun. But once you KNOW about a problem you can't let it go even subconsciously. I never had a problem with LEDs in general until I learned about PWM and got a newer laptop already primed for a problem...used to be big into LED flashlights etc but now am afraid to pick one up. When I see a big LED sign or billboard on the road...even whe its far away...I get instant eye pain/headache jabs just looking at it for 1-2 seconds....that's just doesn't really make sense and feels more conditioning than some actual problem.

Once we see and decide something it's hard to let go of that and the suggesting any pain can be psychosomatic feels like an insult. I am hoping ultimately this IS just psychosomatic since that means we are not just allergic to modern tech or to some setting we cannot really change....but its not easy to get to that point of acceptance and generally requires exhausting reasonable physical causes for our minds to believe it so don't know if I even can get there if nothing physical is proven.

diop

hpst

With regards to anxiety, the fact I am (right now) on a comfortable PC with no symptoms doesn't mean I am anxious about being on a computer, it's the fear that potentially all tech will be unusable for me within the next 5 years (yet is a compulsory part of modern life) that keeps me awake at night.

We can all stockpile old tech, and there are still some stellar W7 builds that can still be made and we can still utilise 2000-early 2010's specs extremely well - but (if you want to stay online at least), it's not going to last forever.

I'm in a bit of a moral quandry at the moment; unemployed but want to get back into work, but will computer work in an office become increasingly difficult due to everything being on W10 now and everything flickering/dithering? All medical professionals and optometrists boil it down to eye strain, nobody in a professional capacity is actually acknowledging the link between the modern output and our symptoms.

Can more be done to push this issue in the public eye (facebook groups, online petitions, spamming support forums🙂). Are there direct insider contacts we can get hold of? Will an open source driver for Windows ever work? All these questions and unfortunately no solid answers yet.

hpst

KM KM can you test other displays and see if there is any correlation between these spikes and your strain? This is a simple test that would give us good data...if all straining displays have a 450hz spike etc then we have a lead...if it doesn't correlate then it's not the issue. This is a USB oscilloscope with software right? Could you take it to a Best Buy or Media Markt or whatever is in your country and get some broad data? We are seriously lacking in any reproducable data and every good and bad thing anyone has seems random and unexplainable.

deepflame

AGI and please don't update to 10.13.5 or higher. It seems that Apple has changed graphics drivers and rendering. Reverting my machine to 10.13.4 solved a lot of issues for me.

tfouto

Samsung SA850 27' PLS, 0 brightness. It has pwm but a soft one. Gtx 670 Windows 10 latest updates. No issues.

On work everybody uses 23 HP monitors. I am with old 19 Inches. The new ones kill my eyes.

Phone: HTC one (Android 5) used to work. Now is not working the phone. No audio.

Bought a Xperia XZ 2 only usable few minutes a day. If I use it more I have eye pain, and twitches all over the body, especially legs.

AGI

tfouto witches all over the body, especially legs.

Have you reported this to a medical doctor? In case, any explanation? I thought twitching were limited to eyelids and at the maximum facial muscles...

tfouto

martin Asus PB238Q has FRC: 8 bits (6 bits + FRC)

https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/2455800

Maybe using VGA, removes FRC.

JTL BenQ XL2720Z also has FRC: 8 bits (6 bits + FRC)

https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/ec326c

martin

tfouto Maybe it does. I wish we had some easy method of testing this.

tonyshan

The more I read the more confused I get about this issue. At work there is a large laboratory with 16 dell p5050 PC`s and Dell p2217 monitors. I can use these with only minimal headache/eyestrain but if I bring one down to my office I get an instant long lasting headache. In the lab using one I am aware of the large surrounding airy space in my peripheral vision but in the office there is a filing cabinet on my immediate left, a wall on my immediate right and a room divider in front of me behind the monitor. Do all of these contribute to my eyestrain/headache?? Are your surroundings and the visual impact of these part of the problem? This might explain why its possible to use a device in a store yet find it gives major problems when you buy it and get it home?

caoyirui

tonyshan Dell p2217H or p2217?

tfouto

AGI Yes i had. They find it funny, but are clueless about it.

Fasciculations.

AGI

tfouto I guess you found it a bit less funny...

tfouto

AGI Sleep well, is the best thing to avoid it. And bad displays.

AGI

tfouto Sleep well

I buy that. I indeed realize my sleeping pattern has been delirious for ages...

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