I disabled dithering on Apple silicon + Introducing Stillcolor macOS M1/M2/M3

specamfi

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs repetition is good in a thread with 800 posts!

Regarding the 13" M2 TouchBar MBP, I'm going to see if I can find one and try it!

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

specamfi BTW, the M2 TB Pro is currently still available on Apple's refurbished store with their 14 day return policy, which is a good way to try it out.

specamfi

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs have you tried it with Stillcolor on an external monitor?

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

specamfi All Apple Silicon Macs should have the same behavior with Stillcolor and an external monitor. I've found output from Apple Silicon Macs (with Stillcolor activated) to look the same as output from an Intel Mac, and aiaf has verified this with capture card footage too.

In addition, another factor on macOS that can affect screen quality is whether macOS attempts to send out a "YCbCr" or "RGB" signal. RGB is generally ideal, but a lot of times macOS will choose YCbCr instead which can decrease quality. Search up "M1 Mac force RGB EDID" method for more info on how to fix this.

Outside of this if you're still having strain with a monitor, it's probably an issue with the monitor itself such as FRC.

Note that you should avoid any "HDR", "local dimming", "P3 color gamut", or "10-bit capable" monitors, as Apple Silicon Macs attempt to send out a 10–bit signal whenever possible, which would activate the monitor's own built-in temporal dithering functions on those types of monitors.

The best monitors to use with Stillcolor and an Apple Silicon Mac are "true" 8-bit that do NOT use built-in FRC temporal dithering (which are unfortunately hard to find, as information can be inaccurate about whether a given "8-bit" monitor uses FRC or not…)

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

new-jdm it was completely fine until last year

There seems to be a running theme with iOS 17. I'm pretty sure that temporal dithering was either "enabled for the first time" on iOS 17 or "bumped up in strength by a significant amount".

For example, I saw a good amount of people here say that the iPhone SE 2020 is their "only usable iPhone".

Seeing this, I decided to buy an SE 2020 earlier this year as a secondary device as they have been going for really cheap recently — but mine came with iOS 17.2.1.

"At least with iOS 17", I hate the screen on my SE 2020. Even the screens I wasn't really satisfied with on the M1 Air and M2 Air are still hundreds of times better than the seasickness-inducing, blurry, and "constantly twitching" image that I get out of my SE 2020 despite it having a "PWM-free LCD". The colors on app icons also look way too oversaturated to me.

On the other hand, I also own an iPhone 14 Pro that is still on iOS 16.4.1. Even though I 100% get all of the familiar OLED PWM symptoms and generally do not like the screen on this phone either, the image is sooooo much more "stable" and I don't really notice anywhere near the dithering I see on the SE 2020. It only has really bad PWM — so I still wouldn't try to do any heavy work on it — but it's generally tolerable for basic phone use and web browsing.

I have some older LCD devices like an iPad 6 and iPhone 7, both on an earlier version of iOS 15, that are so much more usable than the SE 2020. So I suspect iOS 17 is related in some way.

specamfi

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs In that case it probably won't make a difference for me (although i may try the HDMI cable instead). My monitor is a HP Spectre 32 Studio Display (4K) which i've used with several older MBP's with no issues (specifically Late 2013 15" MBP, Mid 2015 15" MBP, pre-retina MBA). MBP's with touchbars, 16" MBP's, retina MBA's, and all M1's cause me headaches/nausea on the built in screen and with this monitor.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

specamfi Mid 2015 15" MBP

really surprised you were able to use it with this with no issues, did you have one of the 15" MBPs that had integrated graphics only?

if so, then that makes sense it would work better since on those models Intel graphics are wired to the HDMI port

but if you had a version with AMD dedicated graphics, the HDMI port is hard wired to the AMD dGPU and that's the 2015 15" rMBP I own. it clearly shows moving temporal dithering in monitor output LOL (was able to disable it through one of the more obscure AMD dither disable methods, however)

aside from that, the internal display of the 2015 15" rMBP is uncomfortable for me regardless though, even if forced to Intel integrated mode. i actually quite prefer the Intel 2016 13" (four thunderbolt 3 ports) screen over the Intel 2015 15" surprisingly

specamfi

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs I'm talking about a mid-2015 MBP 15 with integrated graphics that I tested. My current machine is a late-2013 15" MBP with discrete nvidia. I may have access to a mid-2015 MBP 15 with AMD which I'll test and report back on if i can.

Rikl

async Is the overlay similar to what Flux or Nightshift does or different? If different, can you repost the zip, I could not find it. I'd like to give it a shot. Thanks.

photon78s

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Will check when I have the full testing gear.

Some 13 inch M2 MBP TB have more pixel flicker than others.

This is hard to say but I tested a 24GB ram version M2 MBP TB and it has edit: "different" or slightly more pixel flicker than my base model version all else being equal (same sonoma 14, stillcolor running, same patch on gradient test chart). I used to say much more and similar to the Legion 7i Pro windows laptop at 60hz refresh rate but re-testing shows a more subtle difference. Whether this has a meaningful impact on eyestrain and how it can be still better than the other models I cannot say.

I didn't have enough time for subjective feel but the screen seemed slightly off but this is hard to describe. PWM test with camera test seems the same as the base model with no backlight flicker at default resolution.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

photon78s I tested a 24GB ram version M2 MBP TB and it has much more pixel flicker

what's the raw-panel-serial-number? which one has the panel serial number with a lot of zeroes in it, does one of them not have the zeroes? does each have different System Firmware Version or OS Loader Version in System Information?

are you running them at 1280x800 or the default 1440x900? if you're still on 1440x900, you should be testing them at "looks like 1280x800" instead as that's the true native resolution (even though it's not selected by default)

true tone and auto brightness is off on both of them correct?

photon78s

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Videos: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/0p4yxanhwgdzfkh6glaf1/AGj2zhDGrb5vWyqB7zyimO0?rlkey=eedmt5vc2i3si98iv2n18940a&dl=0

On second thought, the difference is subtle. The base model I measured at 510 nits max brightness and the other "bad" unit at 470 nits.

Both are refurbished and running 10151.101.3 as system firmware version. Any way to fix the bad one by changing firmware? Where do I find the raw-panel-serial-number?

I was testing using 1440x900 and I don't see a difference by using 1280x800 for pixel flicker. True tone and auto brightness off on both.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

photon78s Where do I find the raw-panel-serial-number?

run ioreg -lw0 | grep -e "panel-serial-number" in Terminal

Here are the two raw-panel-serial-numbers from the two M2 TB MBPs for reference…

First (had really noticeable color uniformity issues, yellow tint, looked slightly blurry to eyes, but still usable, whites backgrounds look VERY greenish on right side of screen):

F0Y235201ADNTJGAW+000000000P11C5+PROD+Y000000000000+00000000000000000000000000+PY19N0709PA07N0717+6755DKF4P9002214TTTYYW1EA80526916+S6896893Z8S6896893Z8S68968932US6896893

Second (current, appears much sharper, very uniform colors, NO yellow tint, white backgrounds look "ever so slightly" more greenish on left side of screen)

Edit: WARNING after using this FMX panel for a week it actually gives me a lot of strain, despite being more uniform. Avoid the FMX panels, the panels with lots of 00000000 in them are more comfortable.

FMX229114YDNTJHAM+GE1S2405893931+PROD+B214121852196+11228722228722228722228710+K12120392K12220403+645052209KW80A00TTCYYGAHN62628520+S252891HR1S252891HR1S252891HR1S252891H

Which type of serial number does "the one you have that flickers" have?

photon78s

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

The above one with the zeroes with this unit also ending in 6896893. The slightly blurry to eyes sounds close to what I was experiencing.

DCN230500YSNTJGA8+000000001P17E3+PROD+Y000000000000+00000000000000000000000000+L02120504L12220532+6760DKF3W4002214TTTYYW1FB71227806+S68968930KS68968930KS68968930KS6896893

My good screen is your first screen type as well:

F0Y24450298NTJGA2+000000003S02H4+PROD+Y000000000000+00000000000000000000000000+PX15N0804PX23N0921+6755DKK0W3002224TTTYYW1EB92420277+S68968957WS68968957WS68968952VS6896895

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

photon78s Interesting… so both of your panel IDs have the long strings of zeroes (but differ in other ways instead) but you're saying one of them flickers and one doesn't. That's really strange, good to know

To be clear, you're saying the one that ends with VS6896895 does not flicker? And the one that ends with KS6896893 does?

Others with M2 TB Pros have also posted their panel IDs in this thread and the long string of zeroes seems to be a common theme…

However, that means that my second M2 TB Pro panel that doesn't have the zeroes at all is probably a really rare type of panel… considering that no one else has posted a panel ID that looks quite like my second TB Pro's yet.

Donux

photon78s Could it be refurb model with zeros ?

Rikl

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Maybe that good panel was a replacement at some point in it's life. If so, you indeed won the panel lottery!

photon78s

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

VS6896895 is the base model that does not flicker. I would say the flickering one is not that bad. Its a subtle difference.

Donux

Could someone share a command to extract panel id?

karut

Donux its three posts above

Lauda89

async No i am not.. and i am pretty new to the mac world 🙂 I will wait don't worry! Thanks

Donux

Here you go, Macbook Air m2 13 inch, "raw-panel-serial-number" = <"FP1241306KN1J8CAZ+5A2A280724A5HD+PROD+Y237323742384+66241136241131241215241210+K52920681Y82120817+6861A2224KL3N400M24HT2347A29M3729+S28E6898BKS28E6898BKS28E6898BKS28E6898">. I guess I have no zeros, but panel is really intensive over time. Basically unusable, only for quick glimpses. But GPU on external monitor also causes neurological tension.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Donux we've been talking about the M2 Touch Bar MBP, not the M2 Air. The serial numbers for M1/M2 Air are entirely different and not really relevant to what we're talking about.

photon78s

Donux

Both units are refurb.

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