DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Ah, yea I see now that most of it comes from there. Hate it. Wonder if there is a way to kill it off.

It's mildly present on native res as well, but not nearly as much. Interested in where these things are actually applied.

    DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs - you should be using the latest public version (v2.3.1) now, that pre-release is outdated and has some bugs. 🙂

    The syntax is the same, but instead of propertyNameuse specifier.

    betterdisplaycli get -namelike=built -framebufferNumericProperty -specifier=overdriveCompCutoff

    betterdisplaycli set -namelike=built -framebufferNumericProperty=0x0 -specifier=overdriveCompCutoff

    (if you don't install betterdisplaycli you need to of course use the path to the app binary in the command)

        async That's interesting. I was trying to figure out how to force the display back to 120Hz in Low Power mode and was looking at this, maybe it has some connection (does not seem so). If you figure out something regarding this, let me know! 🙂

        But what's cool is that this does change the actual refresh rate, not the reported one (so apps still think the display is at 120Hz), just like when the screen is limited at 60Hz in low power mode.

          DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

          DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs like it always feels a bit too bright and too high contrast.

          For me, it's either too dim or what you posted. All of the(4) Macbooks I've tried are like this.

          Also, set -namelike=built -framebufferNumericProperty=0x0 -specifier=overdriveCompCutoff seems to make things better but I can't say what it is. MBAM1. Thanks,

                This might come in handy for those reverse engineering. dtruss can also be helpful, but is messy and hard to get working.

                GitHub - hot3eed/xpcspy: Bidirectional XPC message interception and more. Powered by Frida

                sudo xpcspy -r SystemUIServer
sudo xpcspy -r CoreServicesUIAgent
sudo xpcspy -r WindowServer
sudo xpcspy -r corebrightnessd
sudo xpcspy -r OSDUIHelper # brightness popup?
sudo xpcspy -r ContextStoreAgent # plist writes etc

                Rikl For me, it's either too dim or what you posted. All of the(4) Macbooks I've tried are like this.

                For me right now, only my M1 Air has actually struck the right balance of brightness, it feels "just right" at whatever brightness level I set it to, not too dim or too bright.

                Even though I was leaning towards the M2 TB Pro for a while… after a week of using it, given that my current second M2 TB has that panel that starts with "FMX" that causes strain (which is now backed up by @madmozg 's experience too…)

                (Since I don't have time to try out another M2 TB Pro) I'm actually currently planning to keep my M1 Air instead as it seems to cross the threshold of being "good enough" for me despite it's flaws!

                -

                Even though my M1 Air has the "PWM on camera on dark grays issue" that none of the TB Pros have, I've realized that some laptops that I find very usable — my old 2012 Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga and 2015 12" MacBook — also actually have this flicker issue too, but it doesn't seem to impact my productivity using those devices!

                I guess the best way to refer to the specific, harder to detect style of PWM is "a slight dip in brightness that is synced with every frame", similar to the "DC-like" dimming used on more recent """flicker-free""" OLED TVs.

                So I think I can get used to the type of PWM it uses, since everything else about my M1 Air's display like brightness, saturation of colors, and contrast feels so much more relaxing than my (current) M2 TB Pro's panel.

                I also feel like I can "refocus" in on my M1 Air's display significantly faster than other MacBooks!

                -

                FWIW, turning on my M2 TB Pro right after I got up on previous days, immediate watery eyes. But turning on my M1 Air today, I felt totally fine.

                Although, another M2 TB Pro with a less strain-inducing panel — the ones that include many 00000000 in the panel ID seem to be better strain-wise — would probably be way better than this bad "starts with 'FMX'" panel M2 TB Pro I'm comparing the M1 Air to now. At this point I think I'm keeping the M1 Air instead though.

                (One thing to note though is that every M2 TB Pro regardless of panel has significantly deeper black levels compared to the M1 Air. I much prefer the M1 Air's lower contrast and "bluer" black levels.)

                -

                It seems like I am not sensitive to the "mild flicker depth" (always, on dark grays) and additional "very high frequency" (when at low brightness) types of PWM used in the M1 Air… given that some of my very usable devices also have this issue.

                I'm actually using the M1 Air at less than 50% brightness right now seemingly without any significant issues, in fact it feels BETTER than running it at high brightness which is what I was doing originally!

                (However, I still can "see" the PWM sometimes, like faint repeating horizontal lines appearing in my field of vision after looking away from the screen. Not that bad though and I only see this occasionally.)

                The M1 Air screen is also able to look very still after activating Stillcolor!

                -

                I think what confused me at first was that after seeing the M1 Air panel flicker on camera, I thought it was going to be the "exact same" as the M2 Air panel (which I didn't like at all, too much glare and pressure in my left eye). However, despite the flicker issue, it feels totally different — way more relaxing colors on the M1 Air compared to any of the M2s, even with just Stillcolor and mostly default settings.

                I guess the thing I like the most about my M1 Air is due to its less saturated colors and noticeably less glare, it does not remind me of my original terrible 14" mini-LED MBP at all 🙂

                -

                Here is my M1 Air's panel ID:

                FP1223202CVP3WVBD+5AQK240320A9JA+PROD+Y218621852194+2122321L22322122322B223220+K10720181K11620413+5425A2205KT30T00TTUYYJY5A41424483+S23D688Z79S23D688Z79S23D688Z79S23D688Z

                    DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs One thing to note though is that every M2 TB Pro regardless of panel has significantly deeper black levels compared to the M1 Air. I much prefer the M1 Air's lower contrast and "bluer" black levels.

                    This is key I think. One of my original symptoms was a sensation like a flashlight shining in my eyes. After going back and forth between older and newer MacBooks for a while, I noticed on newer MacBooks how harsh it is to look at a super bright white element right next to a deep black (probably where the flashlight sensation comes from). Lower contrast and a more uniform overall brightness is more comfortable in my case.

                        macsforme I noticed on newer MacBooks how harsh it is to look at a super bright white element right next to a deep black

                        and yet, despite these deeper and harsher black levels and extremely bright HDR whites… the most common element on a computer screen is black text on a white background…

                        this is why computer screens should not be "built like TVs"!

                        it's really funny to me how a lot of people say "they're not affected" but then also say "ew light mode? that's like staring at the sun! i use dark mode"

                        y'all, remember when light mode used to look NORMAL? (and was the only option!)

                          DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs I've come to the same conclusion about the M1MBA. I'm nitpicking about the contrast/brightness. Using the Metal gain and brightness controls as you suggested yesterday, put the M1MBA into a perfectly usable range for me. Of course, Stillcolor and BetterDisplay are musts. Also, FontSmoothingAdjuster helps me too. Now, I can comfortably use TextEdit and other apps with white backgrounds. Never could before. Too much eyestrain. The test image by Blooey now shows 8-bit divisions. Also, I use Firefox with DarkReader. I don't use Safari.

                          After your praise of the M2MBTB, I was on the verge of trying one. Now, I don't need to. The M1MBA is usable for me.

                          Thanks for your persistence in figuring these fixes.

                          Here is my M1MBA's panel ID.
                          GMG050601YGNR89A1+000000002022H1+PROD+Y000000000000+00000000000000000000000000+P312L1191PF130108L+6758HK6LF4002036TTCSYK10D02B44509+W20-026536W20-026536W20-026536W20-0265

                          The "-" in the panel ID is interesting. I'm not sure if I've seen that before.

                              Rikl After your praise of the M2MBTB, I was on the verge of trying one. Now, I don't need to. The M1MBA is usable for me.

                              Great to hear!

                              I'm going with the m1air too because the colors and brightness just feels so "normal" on it. With Stillcolor it feels like a good old Intel Mac! (AKA: not "perfect" but very usable, no "heavy" feeling, no intense glare and no headaches!)

                              The screen feels much more paperlike than the "M2 TB with FMX panel" which is just too glossy like "wet ink".

                              (I'm pretty sure the "M2 TB with 00000000 panel" was much more comfortable than the FMX one, but both of them have much too deep black levels IMO.)

                              -

                              m1air PWM is fine to be honest

                              At this point, m1air is the way I'm going, because the PWM issue is honestly fine for me even though it looks bad on camera — I'm actually liking using it more at lower brightness than higher, so I guess PWM with "this low of a flicker depth" doesn't impact me.

                              As I was saying, I've had totally usable laptops with the same "PWM on grays" issue, so I can 100% get used to it.

                              The Windows laptop I swear by and always rely on literally has even more intense PWM on grays shockingly! (But no detectable flicker on whites)

                              Temporal dithering is the real culprit for me (and strobe-like PWM slower than ~10khz, but none of these have that level of PWM even on low brightness LOL)

                              If I wanted a truly "perfect" screen — let's face it, really the only place where you can even possibly be able to get that is in a Windows laptop. There's just not enough options within what Apple makes. But m1air is "good enough"!

                              -

                              m1air compared to m2/m3air

                              Thankfully this rules out the PWM "brightness dips" as the reason why I didn't like the m2/m3air, considering the m1air "has the issue too" but is way better on my eyes!

                              m2air felt really disorienting to use, but m1air doesn't feel like that.

                              The biggest difference between m2air and m1air then… is that m2air is marketed as "billions of colors", has the rounded corners which probably implies a whole different backlight arrangement, and has that extra color calibration weirdness with uniformity2D "intentionally" adding "blotches and uneven spots".

                              On the other hand, m1air (and M2 TB) are both marketed as only "millions of colors".

                              That leads me to believe the reason why I was having more strain with m2air is probably due to some kind of "10-bit emulation" or additional FRC that the m1air doesn't have.

                              (I remember feeling like I was seeing "RGB rainbow and reddish fringing" around sharp edges on the m2air, but I don't see that really at all on the M1.)

                              -

                              m1air compared to M2 TB

                              Two really interesting differences I spotted between m1air and M2 TB:

                              • On m1air, there is a "scanlines" effect if you look really close at solid colors — each horizontal line alternates between slightly brighter and dimmer. I've also seen this before on the 2018 Intel Retina MBA.

                                On the M2 TB, this isn't visible and every pixel looks the same. But this has me wondering — does the TB look "better" here because it is adding some kind of additional flicker or pixel inversion to "hide" these scanlines that the Air doesn't?

                              • Apple says both the m1air and M2 TB "support (fake) HDR" on the internal display, but there's something very different about the implementation on each. m1air definitely has "less" of it.

                                Use a Metal color adjustment on the M2 TB, and it won't apply to GPU-driven apps like Blender or games. The window of those apps will stay bright, and you can notice the rest of the desktop and backlight "all slightly adjusting" (and sometimes causing shifts in banding) whenever the "bright" window appears and disappears. The display is being driven in a way where it applies fake HDR (EDR) more often, implying some additional color management steps are applied on TB Pros.

                                However, on the m1air, Metal color adjustments will apply to all app windows, this "bright window" issue does not occur at all. EDR does not activate on any app, including games (and probably will only activate with actual HDR video playback)

                                I didn't test it, but I suspect the m2air is more like the Pros. m1air is probably the only Apple Silicon Mac that doesn't have this "enhanced" EDR that applies to the desktop environment.

                              Rikl Also, FontSmoothingAdjuster helps me too.

                              Yep, this is a must, even before I knew about temporal dithering etc. I've been disabling font smoothing on Macs for >7 years. The unsmoothed text has always been easier to read for me on any monitor, Retina or not.

                              (However, on Windows though I swear by default ClearType lol, I actually really like ClearType RGB smoothing)

                              Rikl Now, I can comfortably use TextEdit and other apps with white backgrounds.

                              Rikl Also, I use Firefox with DarkReader.

                              Interesting, I wonder if this relates to the different panel ID in your m1air, or maybe we just have different sensitivities.

                              Black text on white backgrounds actually looks awesome on my m1air, they have the perfect brightness already

                              (I just turn the backlight down to 3~7 squares, which is actually helping because I seem to get no symptoms at all from <50% backlight on this laptop!)

                              In fact, black text on white looks even better on my m1air than it ever did on both M2 TBs I tested, since the text doesn't seem to "glow" much at all!

                              Given that black on white is what I'm looking at 90% of the time on a computer, the m1air "doing this right" in a very consistent way is what made me finally decide to keep the m1air after all lol

                              So I actually prefer white pages on my m1air over dark pages 🙂

                              (with generally default color settings, I'm only using a VERY slight, nearly unnoticeable Metal color adjustment because I feel like forcing it into Metal overlay mode makes it feel better TBH)

                              Rikl I'm nitpicking about the contrast/brightness.

                              Yeah m1air is 100% the right choice for you then, since M2 TB will just have even deeper black levels and brighter whites (…especially if a M2 TB ends up with one of the strainy "FMX" panels, the glare is SO bad on it).

                              I hope the m1air's "PWM-like dips in brightness on every frame" isn't an issue for you either, because my m1air is honestly a great and very comfortable panel (with Stillcolor) in all other ways outside of that issue!

                              • Rikl replied to this.

                                          DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs I agree with everything you said. Rtings review of the M1MBA says there is no flicker at any brightness level. If that was the only review I read, I would believe it. Maybe with all the other fixes, I believe it now! Thanks again for all your testing

                                              Rikl Yep, although m1air still flickers on dark grays when filmed at 240hz no matter what.

                                              BUT… some other totally usable laptops for me do that too, and I'm fine with those, so doesn't seem like a big deal after all!

                                              Probably due to the low flicker depth compared to e.g. OLED PWM. It's never actually "turning off and on", just a slight dip in brightness every frame.

                                              Some are sensitive to that but it seems like the positives of the rest of the display (especially the fact that temporal dithering can still be fully disabled with Stillcolor on the m1air!) outweigh any possible symptoms from the PWM brightness dips for me.

                                              Really the only thing I can notice using the m1air that I'd connect to PWM is slightly dry eyes. But I'll take that over the really weird painful panel in my second M2 TB that was causing extremely watery eyes… (and I don't have the time to try another M2 TB)

                                              Everything else about it aside from that is pretty great and I'd call the m1air usable!

                                              BTW m1air with Stillcolor is SO much better than 2018 Intel Retina MBA

                                              (the 2018 Intel MBA on macOS had terrible dithering that couldn't be disabled, really bad response times and ghosting that felt like everything left a "burning" trail, extreme dry eye symptoms. even Mojave was unusable on the 2018 LOL. it was much more usable on Windows but still had ghosting. but… m1air does not have any of those issues at all!!)

                                              • Rikl replied to this.

                                                  DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Yes. I've had far worse Windows laptops than the Stillcolored M1MBA. If I could find a perfect screened Windows laptop(probably does not exist), I would get one and run Linux on it. But still keep the M1MBA. I even got some screen cleaner for the M1MBA.

                                                    Returned my second M2 Touch Bar Pro (with the uniform but really uncomfortable panel, panel ID starts with FMX)

                                                    M2 TB Pros that have 00000000 in the panel ID are much more comfortable than the FMX ones. If you don't see the zeroes in a M2 TB Pro's panel ID then exchange as you probably got a bad panel. (specific to M2 Touch Bar Pro, not relevant for other laptops)

                                                    I am keeping the m1air, good enough for me 🙂

                                                    Here is my M1 Air's panel ID:

                                                    FP1223202CVP3WVBD+5AQK240320A9JA+PROD+Y218621852194+2122321L22322122322B223220+K10720181K11620413+5425A2205KT30T00TTUYYJY5A41424483+S23D688Z79S23D688Z79S23D688Z79S23D688Z

                                                    ^ pretty uniform colors, awesome antireflective coating, no noticeable backlight bleed, no "glowing" black text(!), slightly washed out reds (this is good!), no heavy color tint but very slightly greenish (which I actually like TBH), every other row of pixels alternates between slightly brighter and darker (which was not true for the TB Pro, but lines up with older Intel Airs, not sure what causes this though. Pixel inversion related? Not sure whether seeing these "scanlines" is a good or bad thing)

                                                    m1air has flicker on dark gray on camera — which M2 TB Pro doesn't — but some other laptops I find completely usable have this issue too, so it doesn't seem to affect me! (which is surprising because many other forms of flicker affect me much more)

                                                      interesting fact about my m1air:

                                                      it's the only Apple Silicon laptop out of every single one I've tried where the Apple logo on bootup looks totally "normal", not too bright, not "glowing", not shimmering, no "halo" around it. it's just flat 🙂

                                                      it even looks better than how the bootup logo looks on Intel Macs to me

                                                      Lauda89 is BetterDisplay open and running?

                                                      Also, according to your previous posts, you have an M2 air, correct?

                                                      We're talking about a property that exists on the M1 air. Not sure if it exists on the M2 air

                                                          DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs Yes, betterdisplay was running and yes i have the MBA 15" M2! The build in display was never good for me, but using the external monitor (27" 2K OLED 240HZ) was ok for 3 months then one day started to give me the usual migraine problem but I don't know why! MacOS was always the 13.5
                                                          Artifacts would occasionally show up on the external screen, maybe the mac have changed some settings to better adjust the USB-C display port bandwidth?!
                                                          Who knows.. now I need to patch one eye or take medication to be able to work 8 hours.

                                                              dev