For as long as I can remember, I’ve experienced severe brain fog whenever I use electronic devices. I’m usually fine for about five minutes, but then it’s like a switch flips—I start feeling like a complete zombie. My awareness and focus drop drastically, and I get this overwhelming sense of just being out of it . It’s almost as if I’m not even there, and the longer I use the device, the worse it gets. My friends often make fun of me after I’ve been on electronics because I become really spacey and slow. It feels like my brain has to work ten times harder just to process simple thoughts. On top of that, I get slightly dizzy, my brain feels hot and like it’s pulsing (I know that sounds crazy), and my face flushes red. I’m so jealous of people who can spend all day on a computer and feel totally normal. My symptoms are so severe that I physically can’t read a book or hold a conversation because I become incredibly slow and spacey. Even after I stop using the device, these symptoms can take hours—sometimes even days—to fade away. This has been devastating for my life because, as we all know, electronics are essential for nearly everything these days, and avoiding them just isn’t an option. I feel like I’m stuck in a fog all the time because of these devices, and I don’t know what to do. It’s really taking a toll on my quality of life. Has anyone else experienced something similar? Any advice on how to cope with this would be greatly appreciated. My life is falling apart because once I use a device, I essentially become useless for any other important tasks due to the severity of the fog. I eat very clean, work out, and I’m only 18—so I shouldn’t be dealing with brain fog, but here I am. I’m at a loss for what to do. Any suggestions would be a lifesaver.

evthelegend I'm dealing with the exact same thing man. haven't found a perfect device yet. iPhones by far cause all of that the worst for me. Have you had any neck injuries ? Just curious. Im 25 been dealing with this since 2020.

That's a very difficult situation. You say you're worried about symptoms caused by electronic devices, but could you give some examples of devices that cause symptoms and some that don't? The symptoms you've described seem to be symptoms of brain fatigue caused by continuous sensory stimulation. This symptom occurs not only visually, but also auditory (such as noise) and olfactory (such as unpleasant smells). Stimuli are not necessarily recognized, and there are cases where you are aware of them even if you cannot recognize them (such as the discomfort caused by the high frequency of mosquito sounds), and you cannot concentrate if you are aware of continuous stimulation. Visual stimuli include 1. light emission from the display and 2. discomfort in recognition due to pseudo-display technology. Stimuli from electronic devices other than vision include electromagnetic waves. If light emission is the cause, I think that a non-luminous display such as the Kindle is an effective countermeasure. If pseudo-display technology is the cause, eliminating the pseudo-display technology, using an older OS before the pseudo-display technology was introduced, or using a Kindle that does not use pseudo-display technology much would be effective. If electromagnetic waves are the cause, I think that the symptoms will occur regardless of the display device, even with audio players that do not have a display. Please note that this problem is still medically unknown, and this statement is merely my personal speculation and has not been medically recognized.

This is a supplement to the previous paragraph. On the Kindle, the strange feeling occurs when watching videos or scrolling on a website. Therefore, it seems that the problem is less likely to occur with static information that does not involve scrolling.

evthelegend Can totally relate, the problem is luminescent light, and the solution is incandescent, you can either try to make your own incandescent monitor or you can get one with the only manufacturer at spectrumview.com

jordan no injuries, that's what baffles me.

Anesthesiologist anything that is viewed up close like a laptop, phone are the ones that give me symptoms but things like TVs, monitors, projectors give me no symptoms whatsoever. to me it seems like the correlation is between the distance I am viewing the devices from and that is why I believe it is likely EMF but the prevailing thinking of EMF is that it is harmless. also one thing that is important to note is my severity of symptoms change widely day to day. sometimes I have very intense symptoms and can barely use them and sometimes I can use it for hours on end and before they start to occur but those days are exceedingly rare.

Severe Brain Fog from Using Electronics - Seeking Help

Anesthesiologist

Thank you for your reply.

Distance is an important factor.

I agree that EMF may be a cause, but I don't think it's the cause of your symptoms.

Some people feel fatigue or nausea when accompanying patients to CT or MRI scans.

However, it is rare for EMF to be the cause in household devices, and it is often limited to certain models.

Also, if it is EMF, the symptoms will appear if you are near the device, even if you don't look at the laptop or phone screen.

If the symptoms do not appear if you don't look at the screen, then perhaps there is a factor other than EMF that is the problem?

I think the most likely cause is light stimulation.

This stimulation also has multiple elements, mainly the physical effects of light and the effects of image recognition.

If it is light, the strength of the symptoms depends on the amount of light and the distance.

In particular, display panels have built-in polarizing plates to achieve beautiful displays and high brightness, so although it is not as strong as a magnifying glass, it still focuses the light, and it has a strong effect at close ranges.

I think you are already taking measures, but the main thing is to rest your eyes and brain, maintain a viewing distance, and reduce the amount of light.

Although they are expensive because they are not widely used, diffuse light display devices such as reflective LCD displays and e-ink devices are extremely effective for light symptoms.

However, please note that they are less effective in resolving the image recognition problems listed below.

The image recognition problems are caused by the pseudo display technology that has been discussed in this forum.

Pseudo 3D displays and pseudo color displays give people a sense of discomfort when it comes to recognition.

A characteristic of this is that the symptoms are limited to specific models or operating systems that have the technology installed.

evthelegend

Anesthesiologist wow, you are being really helpful thank you so much.

I do notice that when Im not directly using the device my symptoms are non existent but I always just took that as the result of me being further away from the device than when I am using it.

I will do some testing to confirm if this is the case but now that you brought it up I think its might actually be light because if it truly was EMF my symptoms shouldn't be exclusively when Im using it but when others nearby are using it. ETC.

the reason why I didn't consider that originally is because my symptoms are much different than what others on here post about leaving me to think that its is not a case of light sens.

I don't believe it to be pseudo display tech because my symptoms are consistent with any device/operating system

You are making me want too invest into the special display you mentioned, but I still don't get how something as simple as light can cause such intense symptoms to my concentration, focus, mental clarity, and a weird feeling in my head, etc.

is there any way to make my current screen usable?

thanks again for being one of the only one to care enough to try to help.

evthelegend

Anesthesiologist

also, my eyes do strain pretty bad from the screen and my vision gets significantly worse but it is no different from reading a book in regards to symptoms.

also, it may be important to note that my eyes don't hurt or get dry from the use unlike many other sufferers.

I'm eagerly awaiting your response!

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Anesthesiologist Pseudo 3D displays and pseudo color displays give people a sense of discomfort when it comes to recognition.

A characteristic of this is that the symptoms are limited to specific models or operating systems that have the technology installed.

Also, in addition to the pseudo display features sometimes being caused by an OS version, OS display driver, or GPU hardware — there are other cases where these features are implemented within the LCD panel itself, such as in the TCON (timing controller) or LCD controller board.

This means that even a RLCD connected to a "safe" GPU can still cause issues, if the RLCD just used a generic controller circuit without thinking about what it would modify or try to "enhance" in the video signal before it reaches the physical pixels.

For example, Innolux (a LCD manufacturer that I have many issues with, across any device that uses their displays), that company has a patent that confirms that they do this:

"The timing control and video output unit includes an image edge enhancement circuit configured for sharpening at least one edge of an image shown by the liquid crystal display, and a converter. The image edge enhancement circuit includes a color adjusting unit and a brightness comparison unit."

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

evthelegend but I still don't get how something as simple as light can cause such intense symptoms to my concentration, focus, mental clarity, and a weird feeling in my head, etc.

Yeah it's so hard to comprehend, but even though what you described here are the exact symptoms I get from 90% of screens, for some reason my 2012 Lenovo Yoga 13 (1st gen) laptop basically has no issues at ALL. I still don't know exactly why. But when I use this laptop, as long as my physical ergonomics are good, I can think PERFECTLY and I suddenly don't feel like I have any brain fog or tiredness anymore.

For a while when I was stuck with bad screens, I thought I had a fundamental issue with reading that wasn't even related to screens, or I just had issues with "all" screens, like you're currently thinking. But… the moment I booted up that ONE old laptop for the first time in years -- after trying dozens of devices new and old that didn't work at all -- it's like suddenly I was totally fine, it's like my vision issues are totally gone and it even makes the real world look better after I use it.

But only when I'm using that specific screen, because when I go back to a bad device, I'm suddenly having all the same problems again.

The only other "general-purpose" device that comes close is the Boox Palma, but that's because it's e-ink, and I'm still surprised how one single IPS LCD is able to match e-ink in comfort but nothing else.

But because I have something that works, I've just learned to push that laptop to it's absolute limits and get as much mileage as I can out of its screen.

(Interestingly, the backlit version of Game Boy Advance SP and the top screen of the 2004 Nintendo DS are the ONLY other two "perfect" color screens for me with zero blurriness or brain fog, even if I load non-game software onto them like a music creation app, but since they're so old and small it takes a lot more effort to figure out how to use them compared to the Palma and my 2012 laptop.)

There's a few other screens I know that are "not super messed up" for me and I can still read coherently on without immediately zoning out, but they still cause eye strain. The above four devices are the only ones for me that BOTH cause low-to-zero eye strain AND I can read perfectly.

So for the time being I just find ways to use that perfect 13.3" screen (the 2012 Lenovo) for as many things as I can. Instead of trying to fix my bad devices which IMO rarely gets anywhere at all -- I just find more ways to use my single good device for everything, e.g. screensharing into other computers from it and optimizing that laptop's ergonomics as much as I can.

At the same time, I'm continuing to search for another good device, but I haven't found one yet. I still don't have a phone that I can use for more than just quick glances or 5 minute bursts without totally losing all of my energy lol. Next week I'm going to start swapping various older LCD panels into a (currently unusable) ThinkPad and see if it's possible to improve it that way.

TLDR:

In my opinion, it's more worth it to find a different device that works for you — especially starting with trying much older devices just to be able to have something at all — vs. trying to fix the "bad" devices you're currently struggling with.

I tried to "improve" and "get used to" a bad 14-inch mini-LED MacBook for a whole two years and literally ended up worse and struggling even more to get work done than when I started.

But the moment I found a truly good screen, literally only after a few weeks I was suddenly more productive than I've ever been in the last 5 years.

Finding "one good screen" is POSSIBLE if you keep trying. Buying used devices that can be returned is the way to go 🙂

However, finding a good screen in a modern device is the infuriatingly hard part.

Anesthesiologist

evthelegend

Since there is not enough information about your symptoms, it is difficult to pinpoint the exact cause, but I think it may be light.

As far as I know, there are significant racial differences in light problems.

As an example, people with pale eyes who live at high latitudes prefer low light such as indirect lighting, while people who live near the equator can tolerate high illuminance environments.

evthelegend

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs thank you for the reply,

I purchased a m3 air recently in hopes that it might be okay and it does feel slightly better than my phone but I think I am going to have to end up buying an older device too.

I have a few 2010-2015 laptops that my parents owned will give those a try, but it is very disappointing considering these new devices are literally 100x faster and better in every way.

do you know what specifically to look for? or is just random in terms of what works.

Anesthesiologist

As for why light causes a decrease in concentration and headaches, I suspect that it may be unbearable noise that you are not aware of.

It is difficult to concentrate while listening to unpleasant sounds at high volume.

If loud sounds are played all day, your pulse may speed up due to stress, or you may become dizzy due to fatigue from the stimulation.

This is not limited to sounds that you can hear (recognize).

Many people lose the ability to hear high-frequency sounds called mosquito sounds at around the age of 20-30 due to aging.

However, even if you cannot recognize them as sound, your sensory organs may perceive them as a vague sense of discomfort, and they are known to cause nausea and headaches.

Just now, there was an incident in Japan where a mosquito horn was used to harass a neighbor, so we will introduce it below.

The key point is that some people can hear the horn even at high volume and some cannot, and some people experience symptoms even if they can't hear it and some don't.

Please use a translation service to read this article.
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/b9111e36d26d2790a67b74386b9e9008015fd671

This is an example of hearing, but if the symptoms you're experiencing are similar, I suspect you may have a similar issue with light.

Anesthesiologist

We still don't know if light is the cause, but if it is, the solution is to avoid unpleasant light and use light that is comfortable.

The optimal light varies from person to person, so your own experience with light can help you find the light that's right for you.

Even with the same light, is it possible that sunlight has no problems but LED causes symptoms?

Regarding the colour of LEDs, do you dislike perfect white and prefer a yellow-white colour?

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Anesthesiologist Regarding the colour of LEDs, do you dislike perfect white and prefer a yellow-white colour?

I prefer warm lightbulbs for room lighting (both for incandescent and LEDs) and hate "daylight" cold temperature lightbulbs.

BUT… in the case of color LCD screens, I actually heavily prefer bluish whites, and consistently dislike LCDs that have a yellow tint

evthelegend

Anesthesiologist

the only source of light that gives me symptoms is anything from screens and the only screens I have ever really used in my life have all been LED.

no other light source has given me any symptoms.

regarding the color I do not have a preference as different tints don't change anything.

also have a strong sense of overstimulation and irritability, will try to test the 4 issues you mention to see if I will be able to find a conclusion.

Anesthesiologist

If the cause is light, it is difficult to take measures using the same device, since it is difficult to replace the light source.

The solution is to use a device with different light-emitting characteristics.

Anesthesiologist

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs
Colors that put less strain on the eyes rarely change depending on the situation, but we recognize that the color of lighting that is easy to see tends to vary depending on the object.

When reading or looking at small details, even people with weak eyes often prefer pure white light.

We believe that this is because pure white light has a higher contrast, making it easier to recognize and read.

On the other hand, when precision is not required, such as when understanding the surrounding environment, we recognize a tendency to prefer a yellow-white light that puts less strain on the eyes.

There are other factors as well, such as color performance, but these are different factors from eye strain and will be excluded here.

Easy to see (easy to identify) and light that puts less strain on the eyes are different, so there are seemingly contradictory situations where something is easy to read but also tires the eyes.

Anesthesiologist

Even if light is the cause, light has multiple elements, so it is necessary to respond according to the elements.

The most common elements are as follows:

1. Brightness (amount of energy)

2. Wavelength/color

3. Convergence/diffusion

4. Problems such as flicker caused by dimming technology

More information is needed to make a proper diagnosis.

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

evthelegend I purchased a m3 air recently in hopes that it might be okay and it does feel slightly better than my phone but I think I am going to have to end up buying an older device too.

Yeah M3 air is not a good idea, I can't even use the M1 air or a 2018 Air for that long lol.

The issue with modern Apple devices (and a surprisingly large amount of Windows laptops/Android devices too) is how many layers of post-processing are added to the internal display, it's like all of the edge enhancement and adaptive contrast settings on modern TVs but even worse because you don't even have a way to turn at least a few image enhancement settings off.

For example, the feeling that large UI elements are floating in front of the screen in a 3D way, it's created by extra red and blue chromatic aberrations at object edges + very subtle white halos, that try to simulate the way your eyes focus, you don't realize how intense this effect is on Apple devices until you find a good screen and realize how flat it feels. Or when there's multiple repeating large objects on a page, and it feels like you can only bring one into "tunnel vision" focus but the other 2 are blurrier or you have to move your eyes to process the whole page or menu. On the other hand, on a good screen, it feels like you can essentially see everything on the screen at the same time. And, when I go back to a bad screen, all of the "anomalies" to the colors and shading is so visible to me now — those devices feel the exact same as they used to for me though, it's just way more obvious to me why those screens sucked.

IMO here's what you should do:

If you want something ASAP that works out-of-the-box and gives you a total reset of "what a screen can feel like", if you're able to, get an e-ink tablet before you start your device search.

I highly recommend Boox Palma because the price point is reasonable, the touch screen is more responsive than others especially for typing on the virtual keyboard (I'm typing this post from it now at the same speed I would on a phone, no typos!!), and because it's pocketable you can find a ton of interesting use cases for it — instead of only being able to use a larger tablet in certain postures/locations.

E-ink is not perfect, but trying e-ink is what finally gave me an idea of what types of visual patterns and information density I was totally not seeing at all in my bad devices… I started to figure out the precise things I needed in a good screen. Later, I found that one specific 2012 laptop which convinced me that a good backlit LCD is possible, and I finally feel like I'm in charge of my life again, and can comfortably get work done whenever I want. Now I need to find other good devices.

So, after e-ink, then try to find a really old device that doesn't cause symptoms. (It's not just any old device, you still have to search) that lets you get a solid idea of a what a good backlit color screen feels like for you. Then, you can use a remote desktop app on that old device to be able to access a modern computer through it, so you're at least finally able to concentrate and work the way you want. This is currently what I'm doing for 7 months now, and I'm more productive than I've EVER been in my life.

Now, the hard part, work up from there, and try out slightly newer and newer while keeping that idea of what a "good screen" feels like in mind. You might have to get creative, for example swapping a ton of different LCD panels into a laptop that has a user-replaceable screen. But in the meantime, you'll at least have something you can be productive on, and are still able to access present-day performance & apps by "using modern computers through the screen of an old one".

By the way, I'm 22 years old, so compared to the generally older demographic of this forum I'm also able to provide some unique perspectives

Anesthesiologist

LED light is very troublesome because it contains all four of the above elements.

If it's a laptop from the 2010s, it's likely to be LED.

Backlights that are not LED, such as CCFL, were around 2005 and are difficult to obtain.

You are 18 years old, so the fact that you have suffered from this problem since childhood may be because you were already surrounded by LED products at that age.

You can confirm that the symptoms do not exist on calculators that do not have LED backlights.

Anesthesiologist

One of the reasons for the change from CCFL to LED is the pursuit of beautiful color development.

A beautiful display requires high brightness, and dimming by flickering is used to improve the light concentration to prevent the display from bleeding (among other factors) and to achieve accurate color development.

It is technically possible to make LEDs that improve all of these elements, but they can make the beauty false, and there is no general demand for them, so they are rarely used in computers.

There are some products for gaming displays that improve some elements to improve recognition speed in competitions, but other elements tend to deteriorate because beauty is also pursued in games.

Anesthesiologist

Although they are expensive, I recommend non-luminous RLCD or E-ink devices as a light countermeasure.

If you are considering purchasing one of these devices, be sure to see the actual product.

It is highly likely that light is the cause of your symptoms.

However, there is a lack of information about your symptoms, and I have not been able to conduct tests to confirm this, so there may be other causes.

In addition, these products are less aesthetically pleasing.

With current technology, it is difficult to achieve both a beautiful display and reduced eye strain.

I recommend that you make sure that they are effective for your symptoms and intended use before purchasing.

evthelegend

Anesthesiologist

I am going to purchase an E-ink device and see how I react.

I hope you are right, this could change my life magnitudes

You seem incredibly knowledgeable on this topic, so I was curious if you’ve looked into any potential solutions specifically for the eyes, rather than just focusing on the screen fix?

I understand it could be a number of things, and that you have very limited info.

evthelegend

DisplaysShouldNotBeTVs

Thank you so much for the suggestions! It’s really comforting to know you're 22—almost the same age as me.

I’m going to try a e-ink device and hope it can finally put an end to the fog that’s been plaguing my life.

I can only imagine what my life would be like if I could look at a screen and think normally, Im even having trouble typing this out right now lol

You seem incredibly knowledgeable on this topic, so I was curious if you’ve looked into any potential solutions specifically for the eyes, rather than just focusing on the screen fix?

evthelegend

Anesthesiologist also, you mentioned that the e reader isn't perfect, you mean you still get strain from it? Im about to order it but im wondering if it feels exactly like a book or is there still some side affects?