Sorry, but for 2k machine, I do not want any tinkering 🙂 Its kind of bad news at least to me 🙂

    madmozg Yeah of course 🙂 I'll admit, I used the laptop for 2-2.5 hours today and I felt "cooked" a bit from the pressure in the head, but that's why I was curious with your journey. You said you went for 2 hours the first day. Was that because you couldn't "take it" much longer and needed a break? Or was it just circumstances of the day got in the way? I'm hoping to incrementally increase the amount of time I use the screen, but right now I'm typing this message on my 100% comfortable 2014 macbook pro because I think I needed a break from the screen from the M4 lol. Does this sound familiar?

        whystrainwhy Everyone has in some way similar, but in another way different eye strain experience. To me - "feeling cooked" does not sound right. With a decent machine, I could push full day no problem, even if there would be a strain. 2 hours does not sound right at least to me. But I am wondering how it would feel with external monitor, and also with a laptop panel, how it would feel if you switch to sRGB (Web & Internet). I am assuming you are running Color LCD, which I treat as "show off mode" for the retail store front, definitely not suitable for work on this hardware.

          Donux @madmozg As I've alluded to before, the best chance for a native solution is to find someone involved with engineering at Apple who is either really bored or experiences the issue themselves and having the technical evidence in hand and is amiable to discussions potential solutions. Of course getting exact empirical evidence is a challenge in itself.

            Hey guys, the panel lottery with new MBP M4 is real. I've received yesterday MBP M4 Max in addition to my current MBP M4, I though that I need a more powerful laptop to be safe for the next couple of years.

            MBP M4 (I dont have any strain with this):

            "raw-panel-serial-number" = <"F0YHAP0007N00006GT+A+P9RN49001F24D9+PROD+Y437343934426+P805R0801Y50540907+424C9GC6782423J46D000A43B48T47X7577EIM1A4O67707+5044141A144252A144251544262844271544262034432234"

            MBP M4 Max (not comfortable symptoms):

            "raw-panel-serial-number" = <"FMXHA10032Y00006GW+A+GE1S4807881361+PROD+Y431343434354+K60640772Y72140803+433C9GC30424190F46R000A42T46345D78403IAD4973493+A24375208439420D43952643951A43951543962044395100

            I've asked claude if it could decode this serial numbers. So here is the response:

            It can be pretty inaccurate, but still some interesting info to post here.

            Also from symptoms perspective I don't like it at all. I can tell that I'm feeling weird with some symptoms like pre/headaches symptoms and some eye irritations. Its not comfortable at all. Going to return it back. Also would be great if someone could help with a better decoding.

              Interesting about the panels. I wonder if you can post what it says in colorSync utility? Click on the Devices Tab, click on your Display, then click "open" on the "Factory Profile" section and then look for line 16. It should say "Apple Display Make and Information". Is there any difference between the M4 (base) and M4 (max) that you can see in the fields displayed there?

              Here is what it looks like on my 2017 MBP 13 for reference:

                asus389

                MBP M4:

                MBP M4 Max:

                I went through all the list there, no other differences besides this Model info.

                  Hey, have anyone tried a 14 inch M4? Does it also use quantum dot now?

                    Back at the apple store today having looked at lots of Windows laptops (on a side note the ones I find most comfortable happen to be touch screen when I check) but yeah super comfortable on 16" and 14" today very tempted to test one but will likely wait till after Xmas.

                    I looked at a new mini on a studio display and this started spinning me out in seconds.

                    there really is something massively different going on!!

                      GBowler

                      anyone

                      I just wanted to respond on here that I do hope it works well for you guys. I think there's something in the OS itself happening for me because I ended up returning my 16" M4 MBP due to that super strainy feeling that I just didn't have it in me to "push past" that 2 hour mark. I may wait until the M4 Macbook Air comes and try that but there have been some people who have felt good from it, but there is also a panel lottery between them so just be aware of that too 🙂

                            whystrainwhy I think there's something in the OS itself happening for me

                            Yep for me I have the sensitivity to the OS/driver-related issues too. I can't even use a 15-inch late 2008 or 13-inch mid-2009 MBP LOL — even with the old dither disable methods like NVInject kext… Arguably the 2009 has super intense strobe PWM, but the late 2008 15" is flicker-free to my camera and also gives me a similar kind of brain fog feeling.

                            The issues are the worst on both in macOS, however even with an old Ubuntu version they still aren't usable for more than ~30 minutes for me.

                            I can't use the Mid-2015 15" Retina for >30mins either, no matter if I'm in AMD or Intel graphics mode.

                            The only exception is Late 2016 13" MBP, which is "semi" usable for some kinds of more visual tasks (e.g. photo editing or graphic design — it was OK enough to be the computer I originally learned graphic design on), but I still have that strain feeling in the background, and I can't comfortably work with text documents on it… even though I technically can use it, there's still something really weird going on.

                            With the 2016, the moment I need to start writing a longer document, even in the years before I knew I had LED strain I used to immediately switch to an old Windows laptop instead LOL…

                            (Weirdly, installing Windows or Linux on the Late 2016 MBP makes it entirely unusable, especially Linux which gave the strongest eye strain I had in a while immediately after booting it up — making it the only Mac that's actually better with macOS compared to other OSes…)

                            I don't have any good external monitor yet, but I've noticed that all my external monitors are worse than usual whenever they're connected to a macOS device.

                            Today, the only way I can "seriously" use macOS — as in, entire days of work with tons of text while consistently avoiding strain — is through a NoMachine stream via a known-good Windows laptop (AUO TN laptop LCD from 2015 with Intel drivers disabled)

                            For reference, I'm also sensitive to the Windows Intel driver issues that have been discussed all the way back with driver version 9 in 2012… some laptops are still "okayish" with drivers on, but the only way I can get a "TRULY/consistently" good screen that works every day is with MS Basic Display Adapter (+ a good panel of course)

                              Sadly the new MBP didn't work for me. The pain behind my eyes wasn't immediate but did come back after a few minutes of using the laptop at the store. Bummer.

                                I spent some time this weekend with a colleague's device that has an FMX panel serial number (what madmozg found to be not comfortable) and with the nanotexture display option.

                                For me the improved quality of the backlight was immediately apparent. It is better than the last iteration of pros for sure, in that it's not immediately eye-piercing for me. But there was still a quality that felt straining. I'm guessing that's related either to the PWM or something with the FMX panel.

                                Still, this feels like progress… once they switch the Airs to this kind of backlight, those devices could be usable for some people. I'm still happy this forum tipped me off to the M2 Pro TB though -- it continues to work for me.

                                  14 days later

                                  trying m4 14 inch and unfortunately no. doesn't work for me. the same experience as I had with a m3. maybe air would be better but I hope to wait until m4 version.

                                  sad because I love the quality. tested zenbook month ago and the quality was awful. buggy. also pretty loud. but unfortunately mac is not good for my eyes.

                                  4 days later

                                  madmozg

                                  Could you help, how to dechiper my serial number? What result will you have with my numbers?

                                  What prompt do you use?

                                  I use Macbook Air 15'' M3 Sequoia 15.2

                                  Output - raw-panel-serial-number includes digits only.
                                  I see that your output includes digits and letters.

                                  Terminal command: SPHardwareDataType

                                  "raw-panel-serial-number" = <46503147583730303837583030303030434e2b412b35415250333330303932413843412b50524f442b593331313233323436333235322b5041323850303631325937303633303630342b33323554323331364b47374d4d3030413336323331395932414c32414433345738313039304a3741333742343034332b383233323931323230333239333330373332393333353332393333353332393333413332393333303533323933333833>

                                  ==

                                  Here is how Claude decoded my numbers, but it doesn't look like a correct result:

                                  FP1GW7008W00000CN-A-5ARP33009A8CA-PROD-Y31123246325-PA28P0612Y7063060-325T2316KG7MM00A362319Y2AL2AD34W81090J7A37B4043-82329122032933073293335329333532933A3293305329338

                                  After decoding the hex string, here's what the panel serial number tells us:

                                  Base Serial: FP1GW7008W00000CN

                                  This appears to be the primary identification number for the panel

                                  Manufacturer Code: A

                                  This likely indicates the manufacturer of the display panel

                                  Panel Model: 5ARP33009A8CA

                                  This is the specific model number for this IPS panel type

                                  Production Info: PROD

                                  Indicates this is a production unit (not a prototype or test unit)

                                  Manufacturing Date: Y31123246325

                                  This contains encoded date information about when the panel was manufactured

                                  Additional tracking and quality control information follows, including:

                                  PA28P0612Y7063060

                                  325T2316KG7MM00A36231

                                  Additional technical parameters and QC data

                                  This serial number contains comprehensive manufacturing and tracking information that Apple and the display manufacturer use for quality control, warranty service, and component tracking. Each segment provides specific details about the panel's origin, manufacturing date, and technical specifications.

                                    6 days later

                                    Tuck Are you sure? Last time I have been in a store, machine was surrounded by store LED lights that are flickering like crazy, could easily pick it up on any smart phone camera. Also did you test it on sRGB or standard color profile? Because standard wide gammut color profile is more of an eye candy to impress, or you may use it when you working on wide gamut content such as photohraphy or video editing, but you would not need it to have it always on. sRGB / Web should be used for any eye strain tests.

                                    Also I did not see any reports on the issue with M4 in https://discussions.apple.com/ forums. It was packed with reports regarding M3 PRO eye strain, but maybe apple did their homework this time. There has to be an improvement.

                                      dev